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DG audit on that's appreciate did you little did you do others on please raise e DG is okay scrum yes okay I have the co-founders CTO COBOL 360 affair or your daily if you're dealing coming back there yes thank you the managing director Walker now open akiza open na accusing the MB ingressive LLC Maya organ farm Otto let's appreciate organic and to more tricky segment please put you in together for as I invite the managing director messed around food let's appreciate Erin full I [Applause] Iran thank you Iran will be coordinating this segment Wow yes I signed it so are we ready is everybody I've I caught is everybody be fair it specified okay okay okay okay so yeah Maya okay thank you sir I'm so winner yeah well good yes you all are my legs sir okay good yeah okay so what's gonna do it is if you don't mind we're gonna do this for 30 minutes this is 510 is it possible I know where I need to be asking what some of the best thought I found is in Nigeria on the stage so we can do anything yeah that's why I know that that's appreciative appreciate all right hope everyone had a great lunch it's always a little bit tough to get some energy after all that food but I hope to get some questions from you guys later as well so please begin to think about that my name is Erin I have as introduced at the pleasure of running mess in Africa where the continents biggest tech incubator and really happy to have a strong presence here in Lagos but more importantly on stage with me I have the key players in the Lagos ecosystem as well as you know two founders that have you know really put Nigeria on the map as if it needed any more putting on the map in recent days with their successors and their fundraising so really really glad to have have you guys here on board for sure you're very busy running very big companies cool I think maybe let's begin with a bit of an overview of you know where Nigeria's ecosystem is now and sort of your thoughts on what we can look forward to in 2019 I know it's not January but I think it's still okay to talk about our hopes to 2019 so maybe as we go across the panel I'll let you introduce yourself as well as you know what you think are gonna be the top things that the audience should be looking out for for 2019 in Nigerian tech thank you very much Aaron so just just a quick introduction my name is Dee children's on the CEO of go Cara go Cara is an on-demand motorcycle taxi service and we move people around the streets of Lagos you know in a safe way in a very affordable way and in the smart way we allow people to move around Lagos without being hindered by traffic you know and we pride ourselves in being able to empower you know hundreds of thousands of drivers right and that's what we want to go to so thanks for for having me here it's really interesting to jump straight into the question to give perspective as to where the tech ecosystem is you know right now I would say in the past few years a lot of things have changed one big thing that we've noticed is the perception of the local tech ecosystem here from foreign investors I think the reputation of our ecosystem is increasing is sorry it's improving right and then there also we've also seen a bit more successes with respects to the tech startups that's operating here in legacy of the likes of Angela you have new placed across the wave and startups that have raised considerable capital and I showing a lot of structure and moved outside this shows of Nigeria you know to go to other countries so because you know the repetition is improving and there's destruction that people see you know there's the the the interest from investors who are now willing to come to the technical systems to see what's happening you know and to you know help us build this ecosystem so those are some of the things that have sort of changed over the past few years I would say in the next couple of years what we could expect from the echo system is I would say more local more local faeces for instance you know coming up and a reduced reliance on international visas which is very interesting because look offices are able to understand the challenges that are peculiar to us right so having more look how investors coming up to phone companies you know it just makes it better and we're able to grow faster I hope that said yeah great thank you thank you yeah hi my name is if we delay the CTO of copper 360 copper 360 simply put is uber for trucks in Africa so we supply trucks with our app mobile app to large enterprises and even SMS simple technology where the customers and our clients go in and place requests for trucks and our system matches them with drivers and truck owners based on several parameters such as your location the truck type and destination so it's been an exciting year for us we're in Nigeria we've been in here for about 13 months now and going into Ghana and Togo to answer Aaron's question I think the last 13 months has been evidence that Nigerian youth are not lazy we you only lost 13 months I think and going forward I think we're going to see a lot of Nigerians taking a giant strides were very ambitious people and the international community is noticing that and even the local community like did you mentioned is noticing that we are not we don't carry last as well people say when it comes to techno and it comes to agriculture in any industry we always make sure we are keeping our keeping along with the trends and we always set in pieces so it's book is going to be interesting I've spoken to several VCS and funds private equity firms on font and you can see them setting up shop in Nigeria coming to focus on West Africa and so it's a very exciting time I'm excited for the youth and I'm excited for the startups that are going to be coming coming up this year and in the coming years thank you thank you you know you're a Nigerian pano when like all the talk is about all the big money coming into the country right anyway yeah hi everyone my name is Maya Horgan fama do i'm the founder of ingressive which is a market entry and market operations firm to date we've worked with more than 50 almost 60 top venture capitalists and technology companies assisting them to enter and operate across Africa last year with them with our partners we launched a five million dollar early-stage venture capital fund so you may or may not hear of a amount announcement next week about funding so that's on me as far as what I expect in 2019 or to happen in the next year firstly I think we're finally going to see those in positions in power in government taking really seriously things that attract foreign direct investors and also SME helpful or policies that really take seriously founders and what's good for the technology sector you've seen even recently Rwanda establishing their international trade platform with Alibaba this this this online trade platform like what what this global e Trade platform it's brilliant and and your I I only force see more of this coming out as people start taking seriously voting and also looking at their political leaders in in what they can do for the SME in the startup go system and secondly I think we're gonna see a lot more unsexy tech not that not that Kobo is not sexy very it's very interesting but I don't know if if three four five six years ago uber for trucks would have been translatable to the foreign investor and I think in the last year you know before it was ecommerce and FinTech things that were directly applicable that were in foreign markets just you know bringing them here but I think this morning I sat with a company that's doing uber for ships like what you know innovations in cement innovations in agriculture that that more tech overlay in traditional industries that are Nigeria specific opportunities and I'm really excited to continue seeing the innovation and creativity of the Nigerian entrepreneur building businesses that are for Africa and will thrive on the continent good evening everyone my name is OB Nikes year co-founder walking out of comm hopefully most people in the room know a canal about ten years old when the online travel business and in flights hotels packages and rest of our travel services I can say that I can consider myself a veteran in the tech space because I think we started this business about 10 years 11 years ago when there's literally nothing on the ground here in Nigeria and terms of mundi payment ecosystem and all of that so we did all of the initial work to help build the whole ecosystem we just finished capital race last year late last year with the Dakar law group for 40 million dollars thank you but it was a very difficult process most of us here know how difficult the the economy has been in last 1/2 years so it was a very difficult process for most companies and I'm sure for most company who rely on technology who are technology companies because in terms of resources we do rely love international resources when it comes to development and coding and all the diversity of the stuff so I think one key focus for us hopefully I have only political elections that are coming up in the next month I'm hoping that this year will bring a lot more innovation and interest in the tech space especially from the younger ones who want to go to the tech space especially in terms of development we need a lot more developers in the country we can't ignore the fact that technology is here to stay and I'm really keen on the educational part making sure that young people are given the opportunity to learn software development coding and the rest of them I think that's a major area for job creation I like work that and Della is doing what I have the liberal reservation because I think a lot of our challenges also been exported I think we need to keep a lot of our talent here and find ways to keep our talent here in Nigeria so I'm excited I'm most excited about the fact that I'm a lot of entrepreneurs that come up with brilliant ideas like I spoke to a CEO of of go-kharah it's very interesting business I was actually laughing the first time I heard about it I thought it was very exciting even cocoa 360 I think we've had a conversation before we never met so a lot of stuff going on in Nigeria I've been I think personally I've been very very amassed in in in building a canal or Muslim looking to see how I can get more involved and so in the incubator stadium learn more about what companies and new proteins that come up in the tech space because a lot of innovation happening in Nigeria's Maya said a lot is happening Oh awesome thanks everyone for sort of laying laying the scene for us I just want a quick feel of the audience how many of you are founders as well or I understand up anyone maybe a small it's a it's a left-side thing okay got it and you know I think a lot of founders always have this struggle initially where they asked us you know should I focus more on making money or should I focus more and growing my user base right and I think you know before you even can talk about large global VC money you've got to kind of sort some of this stuff out so I would love I found the perspective as well as sort of you work a lot of investors Mia we love your perspective on that as well so you want to share which which one should I go for so I would go for the customer base and that's because you know even if you don't make any money when you grow your customer base that's value that you're adding because the customer on the long run is the one that generates demand for your products it only generates in need and that's why you're in business and you know taken from Facebook right for a couple of years we didn't make money but they were growing the user base and then they just changed their customers from non paying customers to paying customers so use that traction I would say is key if you don't have traction would refer to your users then the business would most likely fail oh thanks I just want to quickly address something that Maya said if you've ever been into a Papa you know that trucking is not a sexy business but um to the question I think I agree with DG user base is very very important in fact that's the most valuable asset of any any business just like Facebook whatsapp is a very very good example I mean without charging anybody I think in two years they had 300 million users or something like that and that was what they sold they had nothing but but users so growing your user base is very very important and it eventually translates to revenue to growth to money call me old-fashioned but I think you should be making money or at least have intentions to do so I I think yeah I don't want people to get mistaken I understand growing your user base developing a viable product that there's customer retention and people are loyal to your product and stick with it those are really important you're not to have a business unless that's what you have money is just a it's just a metric to measure Val loyalty or the value you are creating to your to your customer it's just it's a metric but it's a necessary metric otherwise you know we're looking this is still Nigeria we're still in Africa as in investors weird Dearest in some capacity there is capital here and there is a viable and vibrant tech ecosystem but if you're looking at the companies that are raising from international investors they're not ones with zero revenue and a million users let's let's be true like the companies that come out of the Y Combinator's and raise and etc etc those guys have great numbers as in with a dollar sign in front of it when they're presenting at demo day so I just want to stamp a little bit of reality on on excuse me for dampening dampening the conversation but numbers are important because money is not as accessible there's not as much of a supply of accessible venture capital here as there is in other markets so build a product that people love gain retention that's the most important thing but also take seriously you have to pay your bills and you have to make money like there's a VC do you should make money you gotta pay salaries oh very interesting on my asset and I think at this point I would need to add right controversy already so the question was I thought this oh boy should be taught you know when you have cash in the back you know it just helps you with your own way I mentioned Facebook they obviously had had raised millions of like millions of dollars and they had that cash to take them to the point when they started charging of course you would get the points where you need money to even keep your business afloat so in our own case you know when we started last year we were caught up in their own perception that only you know users is what we need to good business and it got to a point where you know from a financial standpoint we almost crumbled so truth be told yes there's value in growing customers which if I were to choose I would say was there's an upward growth with customer base I know that yes this is a valuable business but once I you see that you are losing money and maybe it takes you two years to sort of get your customers to that escape velocity where you want to start charging but your money doesn't get you two years then you need to think twice well if you if you have enough money to take you two years without charging fine so I think it goes hand in hand right it's no good to just have one metric to track you know now we track an area of metrics financial metrics operational metrics marketing metrics so many of them so I just wanted to other perspective you know it's what my assess so she's very correct and in Nigeria where you don't have enough capital as you would get outside the country it makes a lot of sense also wise to also look at your and financing really really quickly one more thing to say to add to this so one I I agree with what you're saying and but I think we should we should keep player two things one that money like raising money should not replace your inability to get customers to pay you for your product it's it's used to grow really fast like if you want to turbo boost your growth then you should be raising capital not hey people won't pay me for this thing that I keep trying to force them to use I'm gonna raise money so I can try to force more people to use it so there's a difference there and the other thing is I heard this once on a different panel and it's stuck with me I want you guys to remember this the money you get from your customers is the sweetest money you can get why because you don't have to pay anyone back it's yours you could keep it you can do whatever you want with it if you take venture capital money I'm not gonna just want the money I gave you back I'm gonna want ten times more than that actually not even ten times more I'm a VC I'm gonna want like a thousand times more than that so just keep in mind when you're thinking to go out and be raising money that you you get that $50,000 now you give away your equity I don't want $50,000 back I want 50 million dollars back I think what Maya is saying our digi saying is we're not Facebook we're not in America so once you find product market fit and you've grown your user base significantly launch your product monetize it right away and start making money start growing I'll give you a story about how we started we we always I think from it from a front from when you starting a business in what you must make money I told you must make money now the question is that when you're acquiring customers is a cost to customer acquisition so if you're cut if you're in the early stage of your business you want to acquire customers as at a very fast rate so profitability may not be the Frog first focus you want to generate cost grow your customer base generate enough revenue to be able to cater to your operations but in terms of margins you also want to be you may have to play put a level of sacrifice in margins to be able to grow your users user base so that is the area that I just wanted to add absence from I started having debates on here but you have to be focused on how do i what level of sacrifice where i make in my margins to grow my user base that is it that is what we started we started at a low margin business and as we canoed to grow our user base we able to negotiate better rates with our suppliers with our partners and that we will to increase our margins so we increased our budgets by charging customers more we increased our margins by negotiating better rates from our supply what are the airlines hotels and rest of them to be able to increase our money so all will be competitive those who are pricing the customers why it's well it's wise words you know I I think for all of us when we think about charging our customers I meet a lot of founders who are very afraid to charge their customer because they are afraid to lose them right and I think that's the test right at the moment you can actually charge and someone is paying for your service like I I was saying it's the sweetest money ever right so don't be afraid to charge when the time comes um while we have some of these you know more established founders on stage would love to also pick their brains on where they are now right because at one point you were an idea at one point you have you guys in the room but now something tells me you have a thing called compliance and you ever think oh hey char everything called legal talk to us a bit about that that journey sort of where you came from and where you are now and was it what you expected is it was fun so I think Wesley stood up I would say in another one three years we probably was to be a startup but there are different stages of a startup when we started in February it was just an idea and you know since then we've actually had a lot of ups and downs and you know the next one two minutes would no even give justice to what we've gone through but yes now we are at the phase where we would term it public goods fees because it's at this phase where you've sort of learnt all the lessons that you needed to learn and you've identified what is required to skill your business right so as I won we started we started off with about 100 bikes and we were still trying to figure out what the right business model should be we started off with the traditional uber taxi 5 business model where we would charge a commission of trips we did after a couple of months and we found out that that wasn't working because our industry was peculiar and was different to you know all the industries its referrer we thought the motorcycle industry was like the taxi industry it was very different so we switched from Commission model so a fixed remittance model right which is what everyone in the transport industry does so you give the bike to a driver the driver pays a fixed amount every day which inherently incentivizes the driver to do more so that he could make more money right so from the business model standpoint that was one of the learnings that's you know we we will learn from the tech standpoint as well we funneled like it wasn't easy to build a ride-sharing platform right in a country like Nigeria because you know in terms of the data so we even launched an app where you have like various map screens you know there's it's a connectivity between the driver app the user app and the server at the same time you know there needs to be high level of data right and we found out that people who are using the app were having issues with the app it was not loading right you know issues with the pricing because it's a GPS app you know you could have pricing not 1 million just because you know in the routes in you know you lose one data point because the internet ripped off no so those issues we face them but now I would say we are the good phase because we've fine-tune our business model so we know we have a clear understanding of what our unit unit economics are we have a clear understanding of who our customer segments is we know how much I willing to pay we've moved on from from the other segments that wasn't ready to pay as you rightly said and now we are putting plans in place to skill the business you know beyond in the few locations that we operate now but now that you figured out these big challenges which were sort of you know poppers startup like problems right well what's bothering you now now that the big stuff is out of the way so the big stuff is not it's not out of the way the business is so the business model right now currently runs on financing so in another force to empower drivers we have to finance the bags for the drivers right so on one and we have we've experienced huge customer growth and and that's because our customer a lot of our customization causes ascribed to the fact that our bags are branded so the marketing message just comes out when you are in traffic on you see the bikes but because we need to finance the bikes you know that's our biggest problem right now super I we want to move things along a little bit but I would love to hear from from Wacha now because of your long history right so way back you ten years ago and until now what has what has been the most different thing and what has been something that has stayed the same what do you feel is still cord ten years separate to this level years for us yeah so today's 11 years so I would say the early stage was extremely difficult for us like I said there was interest which I remember when I used to be a professional basketball players maybe you for my height who can tell so when I moved back to Nigeria in 2007 invested in in the US and a startup that was trying to do our called metasearch meaning workout so when I came back tonight yeah so there was no ot n IG I thought it was a massive opportunity so I came back with my partner Ralph I made my put my partner here and we went to in to switch interest which was just a one office they had just want online payments they hadn't launched it so these are the issues that we faced at that time there was no online payment gateway we had to work with the with interest rate tool to of to paralyze that project and so a lot of the issues that we face now that you know you want to you want to launch a payment gateway you can just you have multiple options page stack and flutter wave and this is didn't exist when we started we had to work through all of these issues we had to open multiple accounts like 25 accounts of different banks so although this issues we face in the in the beginning but you see that there's a lot more innovation in the payments it's in the whole ecosystem and so we're seeing that's why we're always trying to stay into the beginning of innovation on the payment side so always this is so in terms of capital is our third race so I mean in terms of capital would raise a significant amount of money the company it's has opportunity to grow even more and because the opportunity an idea is quite massive we think that in terms of growth opportunities in Nigeria you look at the numbers about 20 million people only 12 million people travel and we know that most of the reasons why most people the demand for travel is still very high but the biggest issue we have is consumer financing most of the banks and the new credit cards in Nigeria at least very little so we have to find a way to infuse some form of consumer financing in our product which is we have the port O'Call pays much more that were paying particular attention in terms of funding that I'm making sure that that takes takes off and that's one that we're very excited about launching in next week by next week or the next few weeks to believe make the skill economies new investment so whether they excite about the future of that product and how we can help people make travel more affordable and plant earlier and be able to book in time and save cost most would honor that at least I think people should know that when you book earlier you save money and Bosna you're gonna do book late and that's why I travel is most peaceful so the company I think for us is a depletion where skill is now what we're looking for increase inside the business we're looking to expand across West Africa especially on some parts of East Africa beautiful I'm conscious of my man in the bow tie he's like the angel how much time do we have that five minutes okay and Wow five minutes is hard to completely wrap up but I would actually like to give the five minutes to the audience hopefully we can take four quickfire questions hopefully to from this side to from this side again it's very rare to get all these guys on stage so can we have our microphones out okay quickly if you have questions quickly come forward quickly all the way up can we give them Fitch can you quickly give the mic to the bishop oh yeah okay yes so this question is for you yeah and if you could introduce yourself where you are and we hope people start FinTech companies if you're interested come see me but my question is for all the startup no these are FinTech companies but FinTech is raising so much yeah I'm just curious of have it but data is a huge issue and so you guys have a lot of consumer data that FinTech struggle to get have you guys thought about finding options I know walking out just mentioned it but I guess I'm curious for you go cutter in Koba yeah yes yeah you are yes Thank You fantastic question yeah yes so FinTech is something that we definitely looking at and that's because I directly said we are a consumer facing business and unlike traditional FinTech companies so acquire customers force isn't so expensive because people want to move around so we have we would have you know a huge customer base would have a huge driver base and then we could leverage on those two platforms that we have to put a payments system put the wallet system and then leverage on customers and travels you know to grow so it's definitely a space that we are looking at actively okay thank you okay so it's also FinTech is also very huge for us especially because we're playing in the b2b space and as you know with any enterprise in Nigeria everybody does bank transfers it has to go through three levels of signatures before we get paid so that's something that we're working on we're working with some very very exciting partners that you've heard their names on to build some custom solution for our our platform and which we can scale across West Africa and possibly East Africa as well so our definitely definitely have our eyes focused on our on FinTech more this is different to authentic part of our business she does mention which are placed more small business in tech plays a key role and I thought we have the what kind of FinTech division now which is a separate business the way we also look into raise even more capital to fund and finance travel forever so that's a critical part of our business and we're extremely excited about that space all right cool I think we have okay so the mic is behind you hi guys my name is a topic where they'll see you of past 45 so everyone has typically sitting down has up elemental so real hard cooperation component of their business so Obon are you do with the travel centers if you're working a lot with trucks you do bikes and so there's a lot of sort of integration of online to offline are real stock you're dealing with a lot of people a lot of operational management how much is different from running a pure play consumer internet based product so how has that been different from you right merging sort of just product development with real life you know sort of HR or pretty no management as well so how is that for you guys well it has every CEOs every founders problem yeah nobody's nobody's immune from that problem and we all know that human you know people in for especially for Nigeria people first was the most important part of your business and also the area you must pay particular attention to so and it evolves I think early on the earning our ecosystem you know sometimes in vessels reacts you what is your churn rate in terms of your staff and I've you know I've listened a lot of entrepreneurs globally I think when you're starting the business in Nigeria what is key for you is to find the right people I will advising the entrepreneurial idea we all make mistakes you hire the right people I hire the wrong people I think the most important thing for an estoppel in Nigeria or any especially in my jurist once if you have the right people do your best to keep them because it's not easy to find and if you have the wrong people do not hesitate to send them away that's what I have to say about that because the very is difficult and also run a business and you don't want the wrong people in your organization but you would definitely want the right people I think it's the same for well same for all founders what we do and I'm excited for the young people we've we've that have joined our staff in recent months because they almost become product owners they almost become entrepreneurs in and of themselves because they have to be innovative about how we can automate several of our processes that happened for the past several months very manual so we we work together with our team the young guys we're seeing them take up big risks and challenge the bosses and the executives and say hey how about we do it this way or that way and we implemented and it's working so we've been going back and forth with our investors and advisors on how to automate certain of our processes and we can see the young guys in our company making these decisions and thinking on their feet if in fact the most recent things are two of our engineers came to us to me a couple of days ago and said hey we're building version 2 of our application and we just want a place where we can hone in for Monday to Sunday nobody goes home just get to work build this product because we can't be doing several processes manually anymore so that's actually very exciting to me that it took that initiative and ours we're we're we're really excited for the future all right cool can we get two more questions keep them so so we move to I'm sorry Bishop let's just stick one I'm sure I didn't out okay please get the mic to him I'm sorry I'm sorry please but I'm sure they will come that sorry because we need to so tell us your name and then your statement my question is very simple I know what is your advice for the startups for leaders come you know what do you advise balloons for we just have a good have a good product have a good business and you have to make money in the beginning you have to make money in the beginning yes start making money because there's not a lot of money out there to go to everyone team Maya said it she's event you have to make money from the beginning what works in other markets that you say you know keep spending we don't have a lot of cash burn rate tonight in Africa there's not enough money to to burn so it's important that you have a very good product that customers I and it's solving a particular problem just don't build a product that doesn't address any issue so mostly most so with a problem I wasn't able to solve a problem customers willing to pay for it pay for it they don't pay for it then you have not found a solution all right it's a marathon not a sprint though you can do sprints so like product build Sprint's and you know growth hack sprints and things like that but no really from the way that you handle mental health from the way that you handle your relationships think of the long term the way that you even handle your cash burn think in the way that you offer your operate your business from day one and on that this is a long-term thing so the people that you're building with now the people that you're growing with the people that you screw over now are still gonna be the people you screwed over in ten years so so just be really mindful of the fact is a marathon not a sprint yes so I would say be comfortable making mistakes be comfortable making mistakes did you get a pad make comfortable make a mistake and that's because when you on this journey as matt said it's it's really long and there will be very long these very long nights and we love this chance that you may have made now when you look back you will say you probably ask yourself why did I make this decision but irrespective of that you know be comfortable with whatever decision you make and always be open-minded but I think the combination of those three things can be very powerful because once you're able to make mistakes and you're comfortable with it I are open minded to understand you know where you went wrong and how you could sort of learn from it those two things can be powerful sorry I wanted to ask when you started how many bags did you start with 100 so now how many do you have push me a thousand close to eight thousand let's appreciate let's appreciate yeah thank you so relax I think also to add to that is that add to what everybody said is a you're gonna if you have a good idea you have a good product you might get rejected a lot so don't get don't be afraid of hearing know some of you may turn down your idea I'm sure you heard of the Airbnb story and even for us when we started we thought oh we had a great product but we pitched it to some people and they're like it's not gonna work so if you believe in your idea always try to try to don't don't just push toss it aside because somebody says no and always be coachable I think I've one thing we do is that we're always willing to listen we're always willing to learn and tweak our ideas because we don't know everything what definitely not the smartest people in the room so don't think you're the smartest person always get advice even if you think your product is the best somebody can actually give you one or two tips that can make it actually better so definitely always get advice and don't listen to nose in in the spirit of being comfortable making mistakes I made a mistake that I said four questions but I think we need to wrap up at three because that was just such a great question to end off with I want everyone to thank the panel for their time you know I'm really looking forward to coming back next year and exploring if some of these predictions are gonna come true right so we talked a little bit about you know more and more local investors coming online continued influx of global investors coming through Nigerians not being lazy when it comes to viewing building tech startups and I don't think I could have said it any better than my friend here will just make money from the beginning because it is about making money isn't it looking forward to seeing you guys next year thank you for joining us listen general let's invite the CEO to join them to take pictures at this time I'm talking about new business I'm sure when may one was gonna start meeting the chairman mr. faladi Allah he thought she was ambitious and see where we are today once again can we appreciate the CEO men want amazing that's appreciator please I'd like to stand I like to stand here Murtaza so I don't look down on me please