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[Music] [Music] [Applause] thank you canon thank you wppi for inviting us back it's my first time on the canon main stage i feel a little loud yeah i know i'm so nervous you get the better half of me today right no normally they do shooting up here right so this year they're doing education and business and marketing i was like i get to do this but i it's it's it's nerve-wracking right so anyways um thank you for being here because you could be anywhere on this floor right now and i'm really happy that you're here so we're going to play a little video which i i have a ball putting these together at the end of every year you know you're so busy you're working you don't really get to celebrate the moment of your accomplishments so it's fun at the end of the year to look back everything you've done and i put it together just in this quick time lapse and i i have to say i'm not trying to boast about us but i'm really proud i'm proud of what we've created as a brand and i'm proud at how we serve our clients and i posted this on facebook and you could hit stop at any point in these over a thousand images and i'm proud of every one of them so it's a teamwork on the front end what's the back end look at that somebody hit stop awesome very cool but you've got to photograph those details and this is where we're going to lead into what we're doing is serving your clients and serving your vendors and business partnerships so don't just do those cool photographs of the bride and groom that everybody loves to take cinematic cool lighting cool composition but think about how you can market through all your detail shots and bring that same passion to the entire day yeah it's really good i think you should also talk about this would be a great time to talk about the lighting that you do for all your detail shots not just for our couples but sure important that is because that will tie in later when we start talking about well you know the the equipment today there really isn't a bad camera on the market and technology it's amazing i'm partial the canon my first camera was an at-1 so i grew up manually focusing so muscle memory so i still will enact that it just agrees with me i love the color and the images that come out of the camera but the technology today allows us to capture a picture and a gazillion iso but it doesn't mean that the light is good so we want to address that with the venues that we're photographing in our big dark ballrooms indoor wedding no window light so we got to create the light and we bring that same quality from a portrait to the room shot to the detail shots so it's very consistent throughout the day lighting is key it can help you identify your brand it will surely separate you from everybody else because everybody's i'm an available light photographer yeah it'll separate you from available light photography you'd never want to be a victim of poor available light right right right yes so we're here today to share with you um first of all we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for our dear lord and i cannot ever not speak and say that so we're just grateful yeah we're so grateful absolutely grateful for every opportunity we get to love what we do and it's it's all upstairs anyways we're here to share our marketing tips with you on how to market your business on a limited budget and she's frugal okay i don't even like spending money on clothes i don't like shopping i don't like i don't like i don't like spending money i'm very frugal it's very i'm very yeah i have to justify why do you need the 1dx mark iii your camera you had last year was great wait i drives me crazy every time cannon comes out on new equipment stop no it's good it's good um but so for me when i started this business you know we started like everybody else down here no income no money how do you do that when you're not making any money how do how do you not spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on advertising and marketing pieces and printed materials and nine yards right well i developed well that developed but i figured out a way to do it so that i didn't have to spend the money on it and it's brilliant and maybe a lot of you are already doing this and it's not just wedding photographers this is for any photography it will if you're looking to market your business and you don't want to spend money he's just really good at tips and ideas so they really have worked social media is a wonderful platform and we used to do a lot of instagramming but that got even overwhelming for me so i stopped in april last year i think it was my last business instagram post i quit blogging in 2015. i um yeah i don't post much and because for us it's never been about the fame of social media we we work we work hard and that's where our income comes from it's not from this or education programs so the only reason why i was able to do that is because of the marketing that i've done for our business and that we've done so um moving forward social media is wonderful oh he said don't hit that button hit this button i told you not to hit so the first step i want to say to everybody is is everybody new anybody new here to first wppi new in the photography business awesome all i want to say is enjoy the show go around get there's not one person on this floor or in the speaking that is going to give you every answer you need so listen to everybody take bits and pieces and make it your own because nobody's got the magic you know i'm not in your market you're not mine you know take bits and pieces and enjoy being here and come here with focus bob and i every year we come here we sit down before the show and we write down who we want to see who we want to talk to what are you green and growing i can always learn something about what relationships we want to strengthen yeah so be patient with yourself be kind that's the first step really truly that is don't compare yourself you are you are you and that's really your brand right so do what works for you so go ahead you can talk about relationships relationships so we don't build our business off of hey i'm bob davis i did oprah winfrey's largest event i took her most published photograph ever right who cares really when you're serving a client you want to go into that client say i want to hear you i want to see you if i'm doing a wedding i need to know everything i can about the couple build that relationship so that the photographs i create for them they love and they're emotionally invested in and then we also have that team of people that help create these dream weddings so your vendors the venue the florist the videographer on and on makeup artists so we built relationships with them and then don had the great idea to be very proactive right and so for us it's not just about relationships with vendors it's relationships with your sister your mother your dog your family it's not once you can learn how to develop relationships it's easier for you to do that in business what goes back to being if anybody's what's the book uh being a love cat yeah like i'm saying you want to be a love product that people love being around you they like you they just gotta have you versus i just need a portrait can you do a headshot of me i just need a headshot i'm not looking for someone who comes in and said i need a headshot you got 50 bucks that's what i could pay well i want to develop a relationship with you because maybe we could do more right and it's free you guys relationships are free and so the one of the ways that really started promoting our business is by giving our pictures to vendors so as soon as that wedding is over and i takes us about six weeks to process the wedding and get it off to our client immediately i put a gallery together on our online hosting company and i send out an email to every vendor and the only way i know who the vendors are is because i asked the bride and groom i give them a questionnaire and they fill it all out so i know who everybody is and i make sure everybody gets some of those pictures and what do i mean what does that cost me just our time just our time right and what does it do for us it's outstanding we just got a phone call from a couple before we left here and they said we want to meet with you the event planner first recommended us then they went to the makeup artist elise brill and elise is showing them photographs there's our logo in it and then the bride is telling me elise brill says you got to work with bob and dawn they're so nice they're at the venue they're at the makeup artist or at the hair place and everybody's going oh my god we love bob and dawn why are they saying that why are we because we blessed them well we provided something from them we never went to any person venue anybody whatever the case may be we want that relationship and say i'm so good never no here's you should use me instead i've gone in i found out uh one venue the catering director she was about to take maternity leave i said let me do a pregnancy session for you right just because and it built that relationship now whenever she thinks not only of brides but family portraits she brings up our name because we came from that place how could my talents help you or another uh design company they need to do headshots for their website yeah just do it i think our mission and our goal and our business and like i said this isn't just for wedding photographers this is for everything is how can you serve somebody not with no expectations not one time thinking well i did that for you so what are you going to do for me you know we haven't no never never um this is a really good email that i had gotten from an invitation lady in chicago i had we did a wedding and i sent her an email with this link and this is the email i got back from her i'm not going to read the whole thing you guys can read it but what i'd like to highlight in there is back to the images holy smokes they're 54. well this was a big wedding and it had a ton of printed materials normally there isn't 54 images but we had a ton from napkins to bar signs and everything but there are 54 images i can't believe it i'm so lucky i get at least six at the most photographer that's another reason why i'm gonna recommend you to my cousin we did her cousin's wedding i mean it cost me nothing right nothing to bless these people i'm telling you the more you give the more you get back this is another one this is from an event planner and i i highlighted what i wanted you to read the most um you know i don't know if anybody here works with event planners but they are hard to open that door whether it's an event planner but it could be an art director it could be an art buyer if you do head shots and you're going to go into a real estate office to serve them who is the office manager right whoever that gatekeeper is right first of all thank you for sending me without a link without asking right i can't wait to recommend you to everyone i have a chance to we haven't worked with her yet we work with her all the time it's i i don't know you guys maybe um maybe it's hard for you to develop relationships maybe you're not outgoing maybe you're not that one i'm a love bomb i wanna i wanna hug everybody and maybe that's easy for me but and maybe it's not as easy for him i always say if you don't have somebody in that bring somebody with you bring somebody with you that loves you right like for instance when we went i was going out of town and a bride called us and said i want to meet with you and i was like no we can't meet no i want to meet with you before you leave and i was like i can't i got to go i got this other meeting and he i said i could send bob but i said he doesn't do that girly thing you know like i'm afraid i'm the photographer john's the love bomb i said but he's picking my mom up at the airport because she's going to watch our kids but my mom's going to be there too it's kind of weird she's like no no it's okay i just want to meet with you guys and get get a contract sign i was like okay all right and so she says to us and this is when we put um changed our pricing to bob for the longest so we're ten thousand dollars to walk in the door i don't ever ever ever lower my prices he says oh we're losing all kinds of smaller weddings i said i'm not dropping our prices i'll put a i'll put a 7 500 one for one one photographer eight hours small book small destination weddings okay so we just did that she called us like a week after we did that i want to meet with you and i said oh my god she's like i can't believe you just dropped your prices and i went i didn't drop my prices anyways because i put it on my website that we were at 7 500 she's like that's perfect for me and i was like okay this probably isn't going to be a good fit but whatever i send him off on the meeting he goes and meets with her i go and do my thing i come back and i go hey babes how'd it go and he was like yeah i went good i went okay she called me like three hours later and she's like oh my god i can't wait i'm going to sign a counterweight with you i want this i want this one she's like i said well how did it go and she goes i go how is bob she goes oh he was great she goes but i loved your mom why did she love my mom yeah mom's just saying that you should use them i love them they're the best it's going oh you need to use them they should be charging you like five times more than they're charging because they're so good you're gonna be so do you know who they photographed they've done this and they've done this and they've been and then the bride got excited because mom was excited yeah i can't wait to be done i want to sign a contract right now when i think when she said your mom was amazing i thought could i hire her no i'm telling you if you can't do it bring your mother your cousin your niece your nephew somebody loves you more than you think somebody thinks you're better than you think you are and you should be charging more anybody in your life thinks you should be charging more money than you are i will admit it i'm i'm business challenged i just love the craft and the photography and having i'm the mayor of funville i'm the show pony trot me out i take the photos i have fun on the day of and then we can have a nice life put our kids through college because of dawn well he which he loves what he does so much he would shoot for free oh you're beautiful you can afford 200 okay no but don't do that we want you to make a living no you definitely don't want to do that um this you guys is the vendor sharing agreement that i send to anybody that is going to download our photographs they get this when i send the email to them about hey here is um the link for you we work together you probably don't even know who we are but we work together i wanted you to have these images because your work is beautiful here's the link if you if you download the images this is what you're agreeing to obviously it's you know you're not going to crop out our logo you're not going to have to be a legible logo if they're we have had people run up a decor photo in a full page in a wedding magazine like yeah where's our byline and it's like crack i had really strong magnifiers and it's in the gutter and it's not legible yes so then don changed it yeah i changed it to say if you're going to use it for advertising that's cool i'm totally fine with that but i want to approve where's my name it has to be brighter it has to be a little bigger because you know i mean it's a win-win for everybody anyway so you don't share my images with my client because my client has to pay for them i don't give my client images until after all their product is delivered so that's could be six months it could be eight months down the road and so by that time they've already bought everything that they wanted so they are not allowed to share the images also if they're going to share them on facebook or anything these are our social media handles and if you're going to use our advertise for advertising and don't get it approved you're agreeing to pay us a fee depending on what you've used it for so everybody's always like super cool with it we've had a couple people that have broke the agreement we just stopped sharing with them exactly i don't get in a hissy over whatever it's fine yeah we don't want the negative energy and if they're not going to go by we just stop sharing photos it's fun yeah this is what we provide it's a 2000 wide image with our logo in the right hand corner so when they download the images this is what they're getting and then this is also what they're getting in the email is a link it says it's wonderful working with you i pick every photo i can think of i don't care if there's five multiple photos i put them all in there and give it to every vendor at the same time they can download individuals they can download the whole thing i don't care but it's very easy what you agree you have to think about the audience meaning the vendor that you're sharing them with they want only one or two photos of the bride and groom right because what they're trying to do is sell their latest creative service if it's linens if it's florals if it's the room shot so you want to have more of those details this could be for a baby boutique maybe of course anything any uh so you're photographing a family and you say to that family oh my god the dress on that little girl's so cute where'd you get it oh i got it at the boutique ding ding ding i'm going ding ding ding i'm gonna make sure they get pictures right it's it really i'm telling you when they all get together and they're all saying we love bob and dawn it's because we've blessed them and blessing them with no expectations this is really interesting you guys so this is from tiffany she is a photographer in nashville and the name of their company is ace photographers they are amazing well couple years ago they bought a venue and so now they what do they need they're on the other side of the coin now yeah they need photos from photographers that have photographed at their venue right i love this so she says running a wedding venue is our social media has taught me a new lesson it's close to impossible to get photos why why is that is it because you're too busy is it because you've moved on to the next event is it because you're you want to charge and nobody wants to pay i'm not sure why people don't share their images it's the easiest in least expensive way to market your business and to develop relationships and that's what this industry is all about if we didn't have people that loved us i would have to count on my social media and i hate social media you know what i mean it's just brilliant so she says it's there to impossibly get photographers for for photos for from photographers for blogging website venues um i know it can feel like an inconvenience because everyone has their own clients to take care of i myself have been totally guilty of this thank you to all the amazing photographers who sent me images rant over right there is telling you exactly what i'm saying she is looking for pictures from photographers and nobody's giving her who do you think she's going to recommend when a bride and groom comes to her venue and they're like oh do you know any photographers do you think she's going to recommend the photographers that won't give her images no no right and it's also what makes it easy for them they may recommend photographers and someone's always going to say do you have some examples of their work no so again if you bless them with the photograph share them then they're showing your work well here's this room and we have this wonderful little meadow where you can get married outside and they're showing your work and you keep it fresh this is an email that we get pretty typical yeah i'll carry your bags can i come shoot a wedding with you i want to learn from you i would say probably once a week or maybe every other week somebody sends us an email like this just like give a second to read it not at all asking how could i help i have this strength i can't compliment your brand not at all we're supposed to fill your weekends yeah that's never going to be a way you're never going to get a response from anybody when we've sent out and we still you guys we've done we've done some amazing work we've worked for oprah we've done evil and grey's wedding we've done selma hayek's wedding we've done eddie murphy's wedding we're still knocking on doors every day every day and before we left i mailed out a handwritten note eight of them we get these little tiny graphy studio mignon books i slip one in the envelope of a latest wedding so i'm saying i was looking at your website you did this beautiful destination in hawaii it was wonderful i know you have team members that you trust but i guarantee we will serve you so give us an opportunity to share and collaborate can we buy you a coffee can is there anything you need do you need head shots do you need something we want you to know that we come from a good place this is something that i say to event planners all the time if if you if i can get them to even call me back if i can get them on the phone i say to them i just want to let you know first and foremost it's not about bob and dawn we don't care what we've done we're not here to impress you because we understand when we take on second shooters we don't take on anybody we vet them we train them so that we know that we're represented well by our second shooters i understand that's the same for you and i want you to know that if you take a chance on us that i promise you that we will make you proud it's no longer about us we're here to represent your brand we want those clients to be so happy that you introduced us to them and you know how many event planners nobody has ever said that to me before right i just want them to know that they can trust us again it's about building a rapport a relationship uh it's invaluable to your business even here on this floor with everybody that you're working with like if you're working with shoe proof and you just walked by and looked at the new stuff and you didn't introduce yourself and develop a relationship with them you're just another face so get out there you know bring somebody with you if that's hard for you that that can help you with that because it's free i love that i love that there's another good book about customer evangelism and that's where we're kind of learning all these things from about sharing working as a team and getting other people to evangelize for you just haven't found a good return on investment for popping an ad in magazines no no and i hate to say that it's true um so another thing that we like to do is keep our samples current whatever that is so if it's a matted prince or because the the most important thing about keeping your samples current is your light kings around like right so for us in the wedding industry we have a bride that gets married and then she shares this with her friends and they know each other so every time i go with a current book to meet with a new person they're like oh my god i know this person oh my god i know this oh that's that family or that you know and if it was five years old if you know if it was a three or four year old book they may not hang around with that same circle it's so it's super important another thing we like to do is give bless our vendors with books now that can be a little bit more costly it's about a 200 investment but that falls into your marketing budget we found a greater return on investment by getting a book for the venue a book for the design company and especially the event planner and they want to show their latest work and also our partnership with graphy studio which also rolls canon in because they're printing with the dream lambo printer and we've never had better quality printing since they've done this partnership so it's this canon hd printing and i truly believe it's canon in canon out because it understands the file and the profiles the shadow information at a wedding could be tough to retain because you might have a bright highlight dark deep shadows but the printing between graphi and canon's dream lambo printer has just been outstanding so this is such a great story yeah this is this is still still marketing for us we're so grateful for our relationship with graphic studios because they're a book company on this floor that would service everybody the same so if you have a new idea and you want to do something creative they're always up for the challenge they want to partner with you yeah they do and so this is a really fun reason to create relationships like if i didn't have a relationship with a vendor i wouldn't be able to go to them and say hey i have a client that wants to do this because they would be like eh right but i have a relationship with them so they really want to help us out as we help them out by doing this so um this is a good story i'll let you tell it so this is jim and celeste it's their second marriage they're a blended family and they wanted to do a pre-wedding shoot but not an engagement shoot they're older they're our age and we sat down and i wanted to get to know him and i said well celestia jim i really want to do a wedding a pre-wedding shoot so that we're comfortable on the day of the wedding because she was a little nervous jim was really fun but she was a little nervous about being photographed so i suggested she goes ah i don't want you know the typical mushy cushy they really didn't want to shoot at all they really didn't and so i was getting to know them and i said well what do you guys love and like i love music and jim is like i love the beatles and celeste is like oh i love disco but don't tell anybody right so i'm hearing this and i'm thinking well okay why don't we do you guys through the ages we could do 80s we could do 90s we could do current music and then i'll do a photo session of the entire thing and we'll get hair makeup music and they're like yeah why not and so we did we worked with the event planner they got costumes hair makeup they loved this idea so much that they created a little booklet that went on every play setting had the menu in it because they loved the photos then they even said we love this idea so much we're bringing on entertainers so the entertainers came in at the same costumes in the same music it was really a good idea i love that creative collaboration what i love most about this is they were like okay we love these images so much but what do we do i'm supposed to call my friends and family and tell them to go look at us on a gallery she's like that's kind of dumb but i want everybody to see this so what can we do and i was like well we could create a book and she's like yeah but i don't know if i want to give a book how about if we put some john lennon quotes and marilyn monroe quotes in there and she was like yeah i like that idea so we did a book for them only and then they were like we want everybody to see this so they did um little six by six books which graphic doesn't do but we contacted them and they said that they would do it for us and that's them in today's day and because we collaborated together that was the big book right they did a hardcover book yeah the hardcover book and then this is the result of this job is that every place has a our space book on it so do you know how many potential clients there are now everybody took that book home because nobody just wanted to throw it away what did that result in for us you guys eight thousand dollars on top of the web they didn't want to do anything they didn't want to do anything we could have what said okay okay no breaking no worries but bob is so persistent and we do think it's important that if you're gonna if you're gonna photograph somebody you should probably do it before a big event and it wasn't a hard to sell they made the decision yeah we just made them offers and what do you want to do and again going back to getting to know them and how we could serve them this all opened up i didn't go in and say well we're going to do this shoot and i'm going to direct it you're going to do that and dawn's going to make a book and you're going to love it and there should be one in every place setting we just kind of led him that way and they made the decision because i don't like sales i remember business challenged yeah so having a relationship with your vendors if we didn't know graphy studio we wouldn't have been able to go to them and say hey can you do this and in this short period of time get us 232 books you know was quick time yeah and they do so much for us we get we get clients like uh when we did something for tyler perry he was like i his invitation was probably a 500 invitation right all materials from france and all that well they wanted to put that material on their book too so you know we had to get it all shipped and and sent over and um so yeah having a relationship with somebody and being able to partner with somebody because they know you and want to work with you is you know it's key to success creative collaboration yep so if we didn't have a relationship with everybody up here we wouldn't obviously be here you guys i i don't i don't want to tell you that we work with oprah and all these people just to impress you i'm telling you we started in the same spot everybody else did when we came to our first wppi like i said we sat down at a table at our kitchen table and we do this every year and we talk about who do we want to see what relationship do we want to strengthen who do we want to meet and we take every bit of this show and we make it last a year so we don't come to go to the parties i mean we do go you know um but you're out late last night well with a friend yeah but you know what somebody was singing queen in the bar over there yeah he's yeah um so i i guess my my my point is that you're here soak it all in don't come here for the party but come here to learn because there's so much to share share this the next freebie that everybody could yeah this is this is another brilliant even here with canon rays that's another freebie it's another porthole in a community and business referral to start trying to get you out there and you could refer back to it party slate is another one does anybody know party slate and it's not just weddings yes she just said i love it it's like weddings of pinterest so party slate is the company that started about three years ago maybe four yes and they are an event uh resource right yeah for anybody that's searching for events so if they're looking for venues wedding bands they're looking for corporate headshots they're looking for any type of anything it takes to put on even a trade show they do many trade shows yeah so it's free so you go to party slate you sign up for a free account and you build you just upload wedding uh whatever events yeah events this yeah and you tag what's cool about it is that you i'm getting all excited you can tag every vendor so if there's a boutique or somebody you want they it shows up on their wall so on their page so and they're beautifully elegant interface so it's not cheesy at all it's a great representation in fact some of our vendors are now solely using party slate because it's better than their website and they don't have to redesign their website so they're diverting clients to party slate yeah and i love it because a lot of the old event planners in chicago don't have websites you got a guy oh he's the frank sinatra wedding planning you're gonna love it baby you know he's like 70 years old but he's so old school he still has aol don't text me i don't know how to do text i got one of these phones i just called i'm happy look i'm happy right here when brides go to party slate who do they see they see all my images i love it because not everybody's doing it so because it takes time you have to upload the photos you have to tag everybody but i'm telling you is brilliant and it's free it's amazing we got brides all over in in again like the hair makeup person has a a party slave profile and when they go somebody goes to their profile they're seeing all my pictures because my pictures show up on their wall they don't have to post them because i'm posting them instead of spending your time on the computer constantly editing or surfing on facebook allow a certain amount of time to do this to start your party site to start your networking and you can't do it overnight you know that's why dawn started by saying being kind to yourself and it just grows and grows and grows and all you're investing is your time and talent right you guys this took us years it took us years to get here this isn't something that happens overnight i think that the hardest thing that we all do is we get on everybody's pages and we say why isn't that ours or why are we doing this or somebody's charging more money and i feel like i'm even better than them we have to stop being hard on ourselves we have to just start being patient and kind and moving forward if you know we have to course correctly course correct but at least we're moving forward and not getting debilitated by it you know because even i can get debilitated i can look at vanessa joy and be like oh my god she does this cool rock thing with her we don't do that and their pictures are amazing and i gotta stop doing that right i gotta stop it's not fair to me it's not fair it's not to ourselves so being kind and patient with yourself is definitely the first step this is party slate's header i'm just going to quickly run through this these are the albums and so when i post this album and i tag these same albums are showing up on all the vendors thing they're always saying to me oh hey thanks for filling my website with photos because it auto populates as long as you tag them with the keyword all those vendors you don't even have to go there as long as you tag them and i'm like oh happy to help happy to help you know it's just another way of building a rapport with them if they the more you can develop a relationship with them the more they're going to want to work with you because i'm telling you it's hard everybody's knocking on everybody's door hey i want to work with you hey i want to nobody has when you get your core set of people you do you want to take every second shooter that comes to you or a photographer that wants to carry your bag do you let everyone in who do you let in because you trust her right that's what this is about and that's the message i'm trying to share with you that it's about trust with no expectation do it and don't ask them for a thing hey terrell could i come and shoot a 49ers game um this is what the actual gallery they're beautiful galleries too you guys you could actually use this as your website as well i guarantee you that you will not be sad that you did that they're beautiful they're beautiful and you can tag so if a bride gets on and she said or a mother or whoever that's looking for they'll they could search by text if they're searching for winter weddings whatever tags i put in my albums pop up i mean it's just it's just such a no-brainer now that we've shared what i feel is super easy super cost effective does anybody remember what the first step was don't very good yeah be patient be patient be kind don't overthink it don't judge yourself you know um one of the things i also want to share is like how do you get to here price wise how do you get here how do you buy equipment when you don't have money that whole nine yards it's it that's why i'm saying it's it's it's cyclical it takes time you can't compare yourself you have to go slow a a quick just a quick tip of how do you raise your prices the way we raised our prices is going from here and then every third bride i booked i raised him like 300 dollars and if somebody came back and said well they were they only paid this i'd be like well we've raised our prices and then another three bites later and i would once we got to a certain level i would raise them 500 every third bride i would raise them 500 once we got to a certain level i would raise him 750 a thousand until over the years we got to where we wanted to be it was a process if i would have raised my prices at one time when if i would have gone from 5 000 to 10 000 do you think we would have we wouldn't we would have lost our entire referral your client base because like hangs around with like right so yeah just quick little tips does anybody have any questions we got five minutes left or just under that q a anything you want to know this is easy stuff right did anybody find it useful yeah are we still doing workshops we do occasionally when we find time um education is something we love to just share we're not really proactive and we try and we're trying to balance you know family business and education for us yeah we still do them but we don't have a schedule yet yeah our clients are our income not education and we have a few regulations what we do is you know we like to give back because we feel so blessed to be we do i do these goofy uh lighting lab facebook live things from from my basement or from pro cam when i get inspired or by playing with the 1dx mark iii and testing things and because that's what i got to do i got to practice i'm not going to take a brand new camera out on a job and then i'm frustrated because i didn't tick some button and it's not doing what i want to do then i'm taking away from serving my client and i'm thinking about the gear not about capturing the moments so i i was inspired by michael jordan i photographed his entire career and he was constantly practicing i mean like kobe bryant and everybody's talking about he would get to the arena at seven in the morning when they weren't had their uh practice call till ten and then the rest of the team shows up and he's already got three hours in i'm that way there's people far more talented than me but i'll work them i'll out shoot them and i'm going to be persistent i'm going to keep my energy up you know yes what do we use for email campaigns we really don't do any direct email campaigns no no it's it not that that's bad we found that actually direct contact writing or better people get so much email that i want to get separated from that i hand write letters probably five times a week but you guys pick up the phone i want that relationship it's easy for us to stand here and preach you know like oh i do this i do there's two of us you guys there's a lot of you that do it all and i i that's that's tough i don't know how you all do everything like contracting editing designing and shooting yeah say it again come on up here so he's saying do you find that you don't have to reach out because everything becomes a referral and networking to reach new clients now can you come here i can't hear you at all sorry then please repeat the question yes i think where he's going with this is do you still have to work as hard to promote yeah to get it out there because you've built this kind of network and people are referring you no i still find that if i do that then all of a sudden the phone starts trickling down say it again people won't get that if you do it appropriately so if you start pricing yourself appropriately not out of your existing referral base you'll be fine you just say yeah i raised my price what's worked for us right like john started out saying take little nuggets experiment see what works for you and course correct make a decision and try something don't get paralyzed but you can always course correct don't write out a mistake and you know because we've done that you build a bad website it's not working and you're thinking well i invested our first website was like five six thousand dollars and she wanted to change it right away i'm like are you kidding you know how much money we spent but she was right course correct change it fix it right that was a learning lesson yeah you're welcome um we i know we only have like 20 seconds left like what i want to say is there's a lot of times we meet people at marketing things like event planners and they'll be like who are you and we'll be like oh we're about them they're like i don't see you in like chicago social or any of the magazines like oh we don't advertise oh you know so yeah it's it's but get to know us anyway yeah anyways give me an opportunity thank you so much for being here and being patient with my stutter thank you everybody for having us yeah yeah [Music]