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do you have an opinion on universal basic income depends on the context it was proposed in very different ways so when milton friedman proposed it on a advocated it was in order to destroy the social welfare system that was the quid pro quo we have ubi we get rid of welfare benefits and so on that's a level of cruelty so savage that it's hard to find words for it i mean some single mother with uh no income and a maybe an autistic kid has different needs from me the ubi says we don't care they're all going to get the same little bit that's sheer savagery now that's the right wing support for ubi there's another approach let's put it within a system of social justice that cares for people's needs and rights then it can be a cushion that people can use maybe young people can use maybe somebody out of work can use to get to the next stage in life then it makes sense makes a lot of difference what the context is you can't just before or against it so i recently had david shore on my podcast i don't know if you've heard of him but he was an in-house consultant with with obama and has been he's a political data scientist who's worked on how to elect democrats for uh probably 10 years or so now a sort of nate silver type and he made an interesting argument about the influence of money in politics i think many people myself included have tended to assume in the past decade at least that in the democratic party if not in both parties the effect of money the net effect of money in politics is to get politicians to support more you know libertarian economic policies but what david shore informed me is that at least in the past few years um so much of money in politics comes from quote-unquote small small donors most of whom are actually you know fairly affluent people speaking generally and the the the the net result of that money is actually to move democrat democrats to the left on economic issues because the average small donor is actually left of the average of the median democrat voter but but he argued that despite money actually now pulling democrats to the left there's a general pro-business culture which pulls them to the right because it it it's it's not good for any politician to be seen as bad for business is this is this do you have any picture of what you think the influence of money and politics is and um on david shore's uh contention well first of all there is careful study of this detailed careful analysis the most extensive work actually is that of thomas ferguson political scientist who has done most of his career has been devoted to working on this topic way back to the 19th century he's proposed he's studied he's carried it forward to the present to the current not 2020 yet but to the 2016 and later elections and it turns out that there's a remarkable correlation between uh funding and uh the positions taken by the representatives which move to the right now and that goes right through 2016. it's a careful analysis with with congress it's almost a straight line the higher the funding the greater the electability the more the effect on following the policies of the funders now when you talk about the small donors remember that if you're a party manager you don't really care about the individual small donors you care about the concentrated power of the big donors if you're elected to congress suppose you're elected suppose you ran for congress and you were elected one of the first things you'd be doing would be calling the big donors the big ones not the small ones to make sure that they're going to fund you in the next election no use calling thousands of small donors you know can't do that you can you can contact the major ones they're the ones who are going to have the overwhelming influence even if the total numbers are the same i mean that's just automatic and so what you have is uh congressional representatives say you're elected the house almost after your election you're on the phone starting to make sure that the big donors will be around the next time you run meanwhile uh huge numbers of corporate lobbyists are swarming into your office to have appointments with your staff staff might be young progressives but they're overwhelmed by the corporate lobbyists for obvious reasons scales resources background you know so which end up with legislation representing pretty much the concerns and interests of the big donors signed later by the representative now there are studies of the outcome of this so a major study just came out when one of the top research institutions i forget which one it was it wasn't far as i know it was reported only in the london financial times the main business journal it's a very interesting study if you read it it showed that about 90 of the population lower 90 percent are almost unrepresented their attitudes and opinions don't show up in legislation what matters is the opinions and attitudes of the top 10 and that means the top fraction of the top 10 percent where the wealth is concentrated