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hi everyone I'm Johanna pen from the creative pen comm and today I'm here with Alex Anders hi Alex hi it's great to have you on the show just a little introduction alex is an international best-selling author of romance and self-help with over 250 books published under multiple pen names he's the host of the bi sexual empowerment podcast and YouTube channel and as an african-american bisexual male alex appears regularly in the media to speak about diversity which is what we're talking about today which is very exciting and I'm really thrilled to have you on the show so let's start with a definition because the word diversity is kind of thrown around like that's due diversity but what is diversity in books and publishing as we're discussing it today well I think because the publishing industry tends to go towards authors who are white who are straight who are you're of European descent I think for our discussion diversity should be anything outside of that yeah and I think it's the other thing that it's just saying upfront this is a fraught topic isn't it I mean there are this in terms of I didn't I don't like this trigger thing as in we shouldn't talk about certain things and in case they trigger people but this is a very political hot potato especially in this political climate so um what you know can we just I guess let's just say up front that our aim you know in this is to you know present this in a very positive way and try to help people with you know how have you come up against these kind of political hot potatoes in your career talking about this well you know for me is actually I gotta say it's a lot easier because I am a person who does not automatically fit into you know the norm so I have always been the like when I was an actor I would look around on set and I would be the only black person on set and I went to school in Wisconsin in Wisconsin as the middle United States and you know there are a lot of people who'd never met a black person before and I always the first black person meeting so just in terms of life the idea of being the diverse one just was always automatic so so it's just kind of second nature for me to deal with it and I yeah I sometimes don't even see the differences anymore I don't I don't even feel when you know these unusual things come up in my career in my life but I can tell you as a bisexual that has you know been a bit of a challenge but you know even that has been surprisingly easier and less confronting if you will then then I would have guessed mmm well you mentioned acting then just give us a little potted history of you know how you got into writing and publishing well I started out a long time ago wanting to be a writer and wishing I can tell stories and I thought the way to tell those stories would be to become an actor after coming to Los Angeles and doing it for a while I realized that being an actor is telling other people's stories so I tried to figure out other ways I could you know tell stories and and through my career I ended up doing things like I was a producer for Disney Channel a promo writer producer for Disney Channel for Toon Disney for SOAPnet for Vivendi Universal games for a while and I and I made my living doing that for about ten years or so and I started working at Disney brand marketing for Disney DVDs and I was okay with it it was interesting enough but I really wanted to be in development but in Disney you can't really move up and down very easily so I I decided to send in a radical which was leave my job in order to be considered for like three development jobs that were coming up I left my job and then within a month the president declared that we were in the middle of a recession and all those jobs I wanted went away so I decided well whatever I always want to do is my time that now there won't be any new jobs coming up for like another year or so I thought well I've always wanted write a book let me a book so I wrote one and then wrote three more and at that point I realized okay well I'm not really a lot of money here this way I can make more money and I did some research and I stumbled across someone by the name of Amanda Hawking who I'm sure a lot of us we know everyone say this is the point so back in about 2009 2010 there was someone who who's named Amanda Hawking and she made big news because she signed I think it was a two million dollar deal to publish her indie books that she had been pushing digitally to a major publisher and you know within that story they were talking about how much she was making selling digitally and I thought what what is digital I don't know that it so I I went I you know did some research on her and found out that the way she kind of honed her skills and we went from zero to you know selling law digitally was on a forum called Cape Kindle boards at the time so I went looking for that what that was and I found it and this was a forum where they just talked about like all day long how to sell more books these a bunch of independent authors and I just I just I spent hours and hours and hours on this researching what it is and I finally decided to change all my books from being print being digital and then I decided to just focus entirely on digital initially like I wrote eight books initially sold still basically nothing and then I realized there was a bunch of people who were selling a bunch of books and they were talking about within her writing and they were writing the you know sexy form of romance which case I said you know if I ever get desperate I mean like really desperate because I'm an intellectual I write smart books about you know intelligent things if I read a desperate I'll try that and then a month or two later I got desperate and the first book I wrote in I wrote it in a day and I sold more in that in the next week with that one book that I did with my previous eight books entire month and I just switched and from there I just started selling more until finally like within seven eight months I was making a living at it and then it was just you know ever since then I've been a professional author and we should just say up front that the that you were kind of joking with the desperate as in romance authors active romance authors and readers we absolutely respect you all you know we love you you are the basis of our industry I've noticed the romance or Sir Arthur's Humber tendency to be on the cutting edge like for whatever reason well because they get chucked off everything they're like oh sorry we can't have sex around here so we you know sorry you're not allowed on our platform so they've always had to be ahead of everybody I totally agree with you so you know where you were in that curve but you know coming circling back to diversity so where you are where you are you writing only diverse romance so bisexual romance african-american romance you know or were you writing all kinds of romance actually no no I you know one thing I have learned very well in my life is that there's an audience and you play to that audience and the audience for romance books are mostly white females so as a black male um I wanted to cater the largest audience so I wrote stories exclusively about white people like I I made my living writing stories about a white female sometimes um you know slim figured sometimes curvy mostly curvy um and it has done very well and that was by new sold not only in English but it's sold in multiple languages so that's why I did it wasn't until let's say well I you know I started out writing the originally just generic erotica and actually no first I started writing male-on-male erotica then I switched ooh well I realized that if I kept doing this I would never date again because I mostly day women hi I switched to like a 50 shades of grey and then after that I realized well there's actually more money to be made in like just sexy romance so I switched to werewolf romance and that did I did it very well by that for for a while but then I thought okay well actually there's a Kindle unlimited switch in in things start having to be longer so I thought you know what I think I'll make the switch to suspenseful romance hmm that's what I'll do but it took me seven months to learn how to do that which meant seven months of no income and I like put all my hopes into that my first book released it and it completely failed and I went oh geez like either I can spend more time writing these books or I could like go back to what's tied you know what's true which I've found to be successful so I could try something else what should I do and before that I was doing my videos which I do like videos bisexual real talks so there were videos aimed towards bisexuals and I was growing up an audience slowly but surely and you know I'm kind of an active guy just in terms of community building within the bisexual community I thought well if I'm doing all this stuff why don't I also try writing bisexual romance let me see if there's an audience for that and that's when I made the switch and really that's when I started selling the most of my career in English Wow and what about that african-americans are you writing them yet well here's the interesting thing again I'm from the Bahamas so I grew up outside the United States and each of the genres the way the reason why you know I work within the bisexual romance genre is that I understand the experiences that are you know most associated with that so it becomes very easy for me to write about it growing up homage is different from growing up the United States so you know and this is a tad bit of a stereotype but not so much I think the majority of African American or grow up with an economic level that isn't as high as the average white person America whereas I grew up in the Bahamas in a two-story house on a hill with a pool and a tennis court playing tennis with Sidney Poitier so it wasn't exactly you know the equivalent experience so if you were to write African American romance like the what the readers are looking for are a deep dive into the african-american experience or a celebration of african-american culture within the dating community like within the dating Fair and I I don't know if I know that like I can do something and I can you know make the characters black but and that would certainly sell some books but would I be able to like lock into the core reader group leadership of the african-american romance so I've always kind of shied away from that knowing that you know first of all stories with white protagonists in it sell more and that you know I have an understanding of middle-class white of America better than I do you know the typical african-american experience mmm this is so interesting because we're talking about diversity and the assumption there is we're talking about white people writing people of different sexualities or race in your you know black guy writing you know white female which i think is presumably cisgender as we call it and you know straight which i think is brilliant so let's talk about this in terms of the two extreme I think there are two extremes for diversity and you've basically covered both of them there which is first of all which and this is mainly the one idea which assume people are people and the you know I have enough in common with African American woman growing up in a very poor place but she still experiences love she still experiences grief people are people whatever color sexuality gender whatever and then there's the other extreme which you mentioned which is the deep dive into a cultural situation where that becomes the heart of the book and that is where the cultural appropriation issues can come it's like how can a white woman living right got it actually today as we're talking I someone email me and said how can I write about some of the things I do when I live in bath which is like this white Heartland in Britain you know even though I went to school in Africa Malawi in sub-saharan Africa you know I've traveled around the world I've got you know my family's multicultural I was so offended I was like ah but but this is the thing it's these two extremes seem like a problem so how how can we balance writing multicultural writing diversity whoever we are and not being accused of cultural appropriation well you know honestly I don't think there's a way you can avoid being accused of something there people in this world are sensitive um sometimes rightfully so sometimes not rightfully so and we if if you are if you live life fearlessly you are going to eventually be accused of something and it's a matter of whether or not you take it on and change because of it or not and it's like when is it when should I take it on and when should I change because of it when shouldn't I take it on but are try change part but the really thing is that this will just happen this stuff will people will just say what they say but the question is like when should an author for their own moral self decide you know what is too much what is you know dancing on stereotypes and stuff like that I you know I think um I think really the guide that an author should follow is yes people are just people and the thing is like and I talked about my experience like I I do not have the typical african-american experience yet I am I'm a black man living in America so I am tip I am by definition African American so if you were to take a white character and just make their complexion black that is diversity and that is not saying that you know that's not doing anything wrong that's not just like you know cheating or anything like that because you can always find someone who is like that and you're just representing someone from that class from that whatever else who just happens to be black yeah I think it's the same with gender like people say to me or how can I write male characters I'm like well I just write them as I write a woman and I just give them a male name like I you know and I do I probably do what you say like I'm like writing a thriller in India so I give my character you're an Indian name and you know I but I don't have some like wobble their head or you know talk like that I think I sit on that side which is I think at base people are people but what would what would what was your other extreme there you saw you're interrupted you know the other thing is that you know there's the idea of trying to do a deep dive when you're when you don't have the experience is necessary to do it so if you are let's say and again if you write America African American romance you don't have to do the deep dive but um you know it certainly helps with readership so if you try to do it and your experiences of let's say the culture you're writing about is just some sort of random you know I know from TV or I know from movies or from what I hear you can rest assured that you will absolutely be writing a stereotype yeah because that is the way the human brain works like when we're a child someone gives us a tennis ball and says this is a ball and then child goes okay so yellow fuzzy and small those are balls and that's not bad that's creating a stereotype and that's not bad but if you know the parent then handed them a basketball and said this is a ball too and the kids said no no that is not a ball too all balls are yellow fuzzy and small then there's a problem so creating the stereotype is the problem so if you meet like another group when you go okay so everyone everyone from this group is this this and this as long as when you meet someone else or you have other experiences and kind of broaden what you think of that group is then it's not a problem but if you don't have those multiple experiences to to extend out your you know your initial stereotype of the then it's a problem and if you are writing a book in you know having a lot of your book being about the culture of whatever and you have an expanded like that then you can just rest assured you're writing history and then that sort of begs the question about research so you are circling back to India which is you know I've been to India a number of times I love I love it in Britain we have a lot of Indian influence and when I was writing destroyer of worlds I spent a lot of time on YouTube because the biggest thing for me there was getting the religion right so forth we mentioned race sexuality gender religion as a hell of a prospect because again you separate an african-american Muslim in an inner city with like your life and the Bahamas again it's very different so I watch YouTube videos but in a deep sense so like very specifically around a tiny like what would the this type of shrine look like and then try and use those details also I read a lot of I guess books around that so tango dancing I was trying to get a character on tango dancing and read a book about that or refugees I was reading refugee stories written by refugees so what are some of the other ways that you would recommend researching characters so we don't have a stereotypes well I own terms of research the thing I do most often and this is gonna sound you know kind of flat but I go to Google Earth or Google Google Maps and I I choose an actual location for my sets and I and I actually like walk the room so I can get a sense of what it feels like to be in that exact space YouTube I think would be the best possible way because on YouTube you can not only find like if you're looking through religions and stuff like that you could very easily find stuff on religion but more than that there are videos where they talk about you know the ten things that are you know ten things unique about dating like a Russian woman or something like that or a Greek guy and stuff like that so you get a sense of from someone who is from probably your culture and the things they see that are different or someone who left their culture and came to your culture and the things they noticed they're different so you so by watching like those specific types of videos you get a sense of how a person from the culture you're writing about kind of the differences they see and that helps you to understand the things you can add to your character that would make it a little bit more flushed out but YouTube in all of its forms I think is the best possible way yes you can do documentaries you know yes you can like read stories on stuff like that but if you want to see a person and just see how they react and just kind of see they the way they interact with the world YouTube is I think by far the best yeah me too you and on language so because writing dialogue I think this is one of the worst things that authors do and not even on earth let's just do it on a country specific thing like I have a friend who who wrote an Irish character and then the audiobook it was like a leprechaun he was like - be sure to be sure and it was like no Irish people don't speak like that you know or an Indian person with the you know again the the stage and I mean you can also really be offensive I mean obviously there are words in african-american culture that african-americans can use with each other that you can't use if you're not of you know an african-american it's just not acceptable and but there will be people who want to write dialogue that represents those characters and you can see how this becomes an issue because we want to be sometimes you don't want to describe somebody you know in exactly the right way but you want to use some language that respects their culture so where do you think the lines are around dialogue that might again be just totally cliche or aren't all wrong you know morally well well this is against so many interesting complex topics here I I grew up as I'm sure you did with Quentin Tarantino and Pulp Fiction so and Quentin Tarantino has a tendency to be comfortable with certain words describe black people and he feels comfortable with that because he grew around a lot of black people and with a high appreciation of blaxploitation cinema from the 70s so that's kind of my my background on it and what I had to kind of come to terms with how people are allowed to use words if they don't exist in the culture and I think nowadays I would say lean on being fearless however don't be a lazy writer mmm so if you're going to use the words that might that's going to offend somebody ensure that you have done as much research as you possibly can so that you're not creating that stereotype so that you've expanded your understanding of culture in such a way that you can use it in the way that it is actually used in real life as long as you stick to those rules I think in terms of morally you can be okay and as an author it's almost your responsibility to be fearless and to kind of push a little bit but again don't be a lazy writer make sure that you've done your research and understand what you're using because words are powerful yeah and I think the other thing just on on words is you know I'm I'm 43 of 43 not quite yet I'm almost 43 and what I'm finding so interesting just on gender I mean we've talked about sexuality which is different to gender and what is so interesting I'm finding this non-binary gender thing fascinating and this cisgender which this word is quite new I think what in yeah and in my experience transgender intersex you know but particularly I was talking to some you know and there the difference that younger generations have around the understanding of gender fluidity which I love like I didn't even know I had a choice to be more fluid and I really love that but what's it what's interesting is and again the language I almost feel like sometimes the when we I love the fact that we're making up new language I think that's the point I'm trying to get to and yeah I hear people who are my age and older using them in the wrong way like I heard an older relative of mine say oh we want to watch that program with the gay and I'm like what is the gay and she's like she meant Graham Norton's show which are very popular and she didn't she didn't mean it in a in an offensive way I was just wrong but yeah but it could be taken in an offensive way so what do you think you know around these the necessity to learn and understand the way people are using these words and then make it I mean it becomes quite silly if we get down to a sort of you know I'm a cisgender african-american male Muslim you know you know what I mean how far do we go well um I think you go as far as is necessary to accommodate your world so like you don't have to know the intricacies of of how a computer works to go about your life so there's no need to really deep dive into that and to completely understand that if your world is kind of small and isolated then you technically don't need these words but if your world is expanding if you are you know interacting with a lot of younger people if you're an author and you want to tackle like you know try and do something that isn't just kind of straight white male you know from your penis scent sort of thing then it's necessary for you to go into it and understand a little bit but I I have something for your audience some tips how what these words mean like the just kind of like the basis of it and how authors can use it in an interesting way wait so I you know I have a YouTube channel about bisexuality so I deal with sexuality a lot and I think first of all there's sexual orientation and sexual identity sexual orientation has to do with who you have fantasies about who you behavior is with and who you fall in love with so it's kind of like a scientific stuff you can look at and there's only three people argue there's more but there's only three according to science which is heterosexual homosexual and bisexual and then there's sexual identity and identity is how you want to present yourself to the world so for example there could be a person who is their sexual orientation is really bisexual but because of cultural whatever because of you know fear of reactions they could identify as straight so in that way you have this kind of conflict going on so the reason why I really now love writing bisexuals characters so much because you know writing is about writing conflict and internal conflict is key and when I write about bisexuals I can constantly dance with the conflict of this is how they really are and this is how they present themselves to the world and what conflict comes about because of that so when dealing with like the sexual identity sexual orientation thing those are the major differences and for sexual identity that's where you get straight as a sexual identity gays a sexual identity bisect bi bisexual pansexual queer a sitcom all these asexual is different asexual there is the spectrum of who you're attracted to and those attract there's the scale of how strong is your sexual desire so psychology psychologists will put that on two separate scales so it's not a sexual orientation as it is kind of a clarification a deepening of one sexuality so asexual exists on a scale of how much you're attracted and it goes from hyper sexual to asexual so that's slightly something different in terms of like trans and non-binary and stuff like that those are all words exist in a spectrum of or two different categories which is sex and gender sex is all about the biology it's about what genitals you were born with and what chemicals are being released in your body at particular ages and stuff like that it's all about sex and and now there's you know there's officially two but but now expanding on is there's like a third like which is currently more like an other because there's just so many variations on it so the male-female and currently other and other people might use different words but then there is gender in gender is how do you feel like do you feel whatever your your individual society or your individual cultural describes as male describes as female and again with the identities their different identities within that so there's there's male there's female there's I feel trans intersex is more of closer on the lines of sex because intersex has to do with which what your biology is and it not kind of completely conforming to all things male all things can also you might you know your genitals might not be completely clear in terms of what they are but in terms of writing about someone within that sphere creating a conflict between what's their sexes and how they feel is another thing you can kind of tap into to just get the interesting stuff about diversity and exploring past you know the straight world when kind of clear of what the differences are between all of them yeah and that's I think I find it's so interesting I mean I did gender studies within psychology when I studied psychology and I know I I think it is so interesting as you say and like I write so I write a female action hero who is you know who's he's kind of presenting as male in so many ways because you know she's placing me James Bond but a female James Bond because in in the white action hero it's usually a man you know so II just this can go on so many levels and I still you know I think I write I write diverse characters all the time and I still kind of come back to at the end of the day that person whatever their external and internal things will still love will still grieve yeah you know will still look for a home unless they're a psychopath and the personality there's a lot of books about Psychopaths oh that's fine let's um let's just talk I just wanted to mention the Guardian in dis on the 31st of December 2017 said that diversity in publishing is a trend for 2018 which I thought was really interesting and you had said it is a smart business decision for authors to include diverse characters now I think it's a bit sad that we have to say that it's a trend in publishing because it should be just passive publishing but do you think that this this met this person of obviously we've got a lot of movements that are going on right now and I his you know this point in history that are trying to bring more diversity do you think that this will stop being an issue or you know how much will this become part of the industry or will it always feel like something we have to talk about no I think things are changing I think things are always changing and always getting better but I think that article had a point to what they're saying but for a reason I think there's a very specific reason why 2018 is and not 2007 in 2016 three reasons first one being that the generations are changing the experiences of people growing up is it's just expanding so we are of the same generation there is a generation behind us the Millennials and I think the Millennials grew up with race like divert diverse divergent divergent diversity and race being standard because of rap music it just became everywhere because TV shows were beginning to be more diverse when they were growing up because of I guess MTV is less now but still back when Millennials were there that's still kind of a big thing and because of all these things the Millennials have grown up with no you know diversity is just kind of expected that's just what are they and now they're started making content for themselves and it reflects that and then the generation behind them which is generation Z they're growing up with sexual diversity the same way Millennials grew up with racial diversity so if you want to write books but these readers can relate to though you have to start thinking about diversity and you'll always sell books if you don't include diversity but the stickiness factor of those generations like for example I am a lover of an author named whose name is bebe Larsson he writes sci-fi and I read a lot of sci-fi authors but the first time I wrote a read one of his books you know the first chapter aliens come to earth sadly they kill his children grab him put him on a stay and then he has to battle to survive and the person that he had the battle was a Latina woman and he fights her off and wins and then she gets thrown off the spaceship but he tells the spaceship that grab her and help her and repair her and they become romantic interests and it's like uh when you're not when you're not white and you're reading books when you see a character of the main character there's anything other than white um a tendency just to go what so I saw this and I kind of went wait what what just happened here and from that point forward like he just his best friend was black and all these other racial diverse groups were added to the story and as a non-white reader you kind of go oh I like this I like I I really like this so if you want that stickiness and I've read about 13 or 15 of his books um in part because I can like relate to stuff if you want that stickiness with your readership then you you probably should try and make the world's better reflect the world of the upcoming generations because those the new readers mmm that's that's one big thing but I think also like specifically 2018 vs. 2017 16 this is a kind of a broader historical thing and I'm gonna use American history since I it's what I'm most familiar with so there was a civil war in the United States which was the war against the north against the south and his World War slavery Lincoln fought the war freed the slaves and right after that happened there was a group created called the Klu Klux Klan it's an American group it's like a white it's like a white supremacist group I would hope that most people have heard I'm sure your viewers are from all over the world so um so there's a clue guys plan and they existed for a number of decades until the rest of society came down and squashed them and quieted down and they went away for a while so then that remained for another couple decades until about 1940s where there was a lot of Italian immigration into United States and them plus the Jews plus the blacks caused the Klu Klux Klan to decide they had to have a second wave um and then they did and that lasted for a slightly short time and then the rest Society came down and squashed that and they remained quiet again until the 1960s when it was a black right of the civil rights movement going on Martin Luther King Malcolm X and then there was a third wave the Ku Klux Klan and again Society came together and kind of squashed them down and what happened what did we just come out of in 2016 it was the first african-american president in history of America and what happened right afterwards well we had a you know a our first president who openly said derogatory things about other races and had made his career off of saying that the first black president wasn't born here and then we had Charlottesville where the people who of the Ku Klux Klan the white supremacy once again had like they felt empowered and they again came to the forefront so what happened throughout all of history society has come together again to silence that voice and I think that with everyone you know readers tend to be a little bit more liberal simply because when you read you find you find out about other people's worlds so weeders see those things like in Charlottesville there is that rally in Charlottesville and go that's really icky and if you watch a TV show that just has all white people on it or just read of books that just have all nothing but white culture it's kind of like that's a key oh and that TV show I'm watching kind of reflects the philosophy of that achiness over there and this book I read it's just it's just nothing but that maybe I should look for something a little bit more broader and because of that kind of historical trend people nowadays have a tendency to look for things that are slightly more diverse and does not reflect the ickiness of what's going on in society today so because of that trend I think it is for 2018 a good idea to present things that make readers feel good for reading it as opposed to having it reflect the attitude of yes wants it in society yeah I think you're right and I don't know if this was Martin Luther King but that the arc of the moral universe tends towards the good I think that yes with that modern luther king i think i think so it's long and bends towards justice yes something like that yeah like it's all good but we're moving towards the good and and I know I was thinking about that around Netflix because what's so interesting around Netflix and the streaming media and ebooks the ease of finding ebooks is that readers have a chance to actually seek out these more diverse you know different things that they want to watch or read and they can find them and they're being produced now whereas it it was that pub the publishing industry which certainly in Britain they've had reports on it is very very white straight dominated you know university educated you know but now because of self-publishing people can publish the books they want I mean what had is so interesting what pad they're talking about you know young Muslim women writing stories about you know love stories what that means within a Muslim culture which is so different to what you or I would be used to even imagine yeah exactly and that is absolutely fascinating so I love this I think this is such an interesting angle and in a way it shouldn't be but we I think we all have to be responsible for saying yes let's try and just instead of just instinctively picking a character just like us is to try and think a bit deeper about about who that character could be and as you say use that for conflict you know even within within my own family you know we have several is mixed-race marriages across you know racial and religious diversity just within my siblings and it you know I there is you know of course when you come from different cultures there they were going to be conflicts but yet love is there so I yeah I think this is so important and I don't even think like yes is absolutely important and morally speaking is probably something you should be thinking about as an author but just looking at from an author perspective like the fun of writing is coming up with conflicts and kind of resolving those conflicts and diving into the experiences of you know interacting with different races and different sexual orientations and stuff like that it's like a gold mine I mean in the United States I've been noticing just so many more bisexual characters ending up on television shows and honestly I don't think it's because TV writers are saying hey this is something different whatever else I think it's I think it's generally because when it personally stops and thinks about it like writing about bisexuality or bisexual character how much more interesting is it that that character can fall in love with that person which is you know let's say the opposite gender which is pretty standard and stuff like that hmm but then you can have that same character later on Paul for that I went over there there's just so much so much you can explore so much you can do with it just it just becomes so much more of an option to one-up to a person as a writer mm-hmm and I think more and more writers are starting to realize that and hence making more and more characters bisexual because it just opens up this whole new world of what you can explore and and you know stuff that people haven't seen before yeah fantastic right so where can people find you and your books and your YouTube channel and everything you do online you can go to one place Alexander's books calm there I have all my books listed I also have all my social medias you can find my youtube channel and you can find all that stuff there fantastic well thanks so much for your time Alex that was great thank you thank you so much I'm glad you're inviting me and I appreciate so much