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today's webinar is taking place on May 2nd 2017 at this time I would like to go ahead and introduce our speaker today our speaker today is Stan Elias thank you and welcome Dan Thank You Amanda and thank you all who are participating by webinar today on this presentation dealing with trusts somewhat like Austin Powers allow myself to introduce myself my name is dan lieth i'm the transactional business consultant for CT here in the midwest region primarily stretching from michigan down to Oklahoma and I've been in that position for approximately eight years or so so again thank you for all attending for today and you know and really what today is about is trust and being able to trust yourself with trust for a lack of a better term trusts are an increasingly common component of UCC work in terms of our filing and then subsequently our searching so CT thought it was important that we try to put out a presentation here for the next hour or so to kind of discuss the three main topics around trust which is as you see from today's agenda the basics filing and searching certainly the most important thing with trust just like it is with any UCC documents making sure that you are filing correctly not only with the proper name which is the significant trust with trust as the issue but also in the proper location and again before we get into that filing we want to touch on the basics to kind of get that ground for kind of established and then get into filing and then certainly talk about searching at the end you know the thing about searching is is that if you've filed properly and you file them in the right location searching kind of just flows naturally from that so we'll be probably spending more of our time on the first two parts of the agenda which deals with the trust basics and also with filing so why trust and why article 9 as you see from our next slide we start with this why we create an entire presentation on try under article 9 like why are we here and if they already stated I mean the one of the main reasons is that we just see more trust work out there there's there are more and more filings that are connected to them but in addition to that we also see with that number of increased in trust being filed the questions have also increased and multiplied trusts have been an issue for our UCC clients since actually prior to the amendments of 2010 but in 2010 you know we had to change it in 2001 where we thought we made some pretty substantial changes in terms of trust filings the changes in 2010 I think certainly helped clarify them but you know it was a shift just like we saw in so many things in 2001 and then subsequently in 2010 we we changed how we file and deal with trusts and so the 22 2001 amendments change the inquiry pertaining to trust from that identity of the debtor to the status of the collateral right and this is some of this is going to sound somewhat similar to what we deal with with corporations so the identity of the debtor whether it's to trust the trustee the beneficiaries all that was no longer as relevant after 2001 and then certainly 2010 with the changes so we're back to what is very central to our UCC world which is the debtor name required by article 9 is what's vital and is what is very important with whether it's a corporation or trust the name of the debtor is is essential for proper filing and those 2010 amendments just reiterated that or maybe even spells out even more clearly is the importance of moving away from the identity of the debtor to the collateral and the name of the trust or what whatever form that may be now again I just want to make this clear though it is always important to know still the identity of the debtor as that determines maybe the filing location however it is no longer a part of determining what debtor name is used under article 9 so obviously just keep that distinction in places that for the filing that is one thing the location is another so that so just keep that keep that in mind so that's why we're why we're here and like I said let's start this journey down the road of trust and Trust work so why trust in the article 9 we now move to our trust basics our next slide let's take a look at what our trust basics all right Black's Law Dictionary has a definition of trust and it's simply this it is this is a kind of a common definition and you guys can certainly read it but it is to put it more simply a trust as a creation of law in which one party next the trustee has legal ownership of any form of property that has been transferred to him/her or it the entity by the person establishing the trust the trust assets are invested and are managed for the benefit or one of one or more beneficiaries all right that's really what a trust is all right there's a few main obviously we'll be talking about the parties later on but in a nutshell that's what it is just like when we're dealing with a corporation is that it may be vast in size and scope but the actual underpinnings of a corporation are quite simple in terms of the Articles of Incorporation the same is true of a trust I mean the basic underpinning of this and the intent of it is actually very simple it's moving money into a into an into an organization or entity if you will the trust to help a beneficiary and it's managed by someone called the trustee means it's pretty much it's that simple it is again we get sometimes lost in the the size of it or the number of trustees or the number of beneficiaries and all that but Rick but at the core this stuff around trust again is actually fairly simple alright so here is our cast of characters when it comes to a trust as I kind of already alluded to we have a trustee the grantor of the estate and have been fishy Aryan so these are you know if you want to say this is our Shakespearean tragedy here here's our characters alright the trusty as we can see here is that that's the party that has legal control over the trust and again that person can take many different forms that can be an individual it should be a company that is specifically designed to manage trusts certainly the one of the things that we come into in the contact with and I'm sure many of you out there come into contact with the truck financial institutions and banks will actually have an entire organization set up to manage trusts and so that's normally where you see where you see somebody managing is a financial institution grantor again that's the person establishing the trust that's again that can be one person that can be multiple people but again that's the person who's actually starting this starting us down this path that other people who are normally putting the assets into the trust the estate that is actually what is the prop that is owned by the trust now is the the estate is what actually is being managed by the trustee and last but not least is the beneficiary and that's the person or people or entity that is actually receiving some type of benefits from the management of the management and growth of the trust again that can be someone as simple as as the grandchildren of someone who set this trust up it could be a nonprofits such as like a animal rights group or pet group I mean it can take any different form in terms of the beneficiary but again they are the people who are receiving the rewards of the management of the trust so here are your characters and again it I can't stress enough it really it is quite simple now we understand there's a lot of complexities to it after the half of the fact but at least the kapha characters in the intent are quite simple right so why are so in trust we trust how do they impact us I mean you know like again not to sound overly Seinfeld e'en but why are we here all right what's the deal with trust alright well here's how they impact us and these are just a couple of facts that we we found on out there and there in the internet I do not boot I do believe it is not fake news so I think it's good to go we got this from legitimate sources but for example Bank of America derives 21 percent of their revenue from trust or trust management 21 percent for Bank of America that equates to a walk round and I thought this number was pretty impressive one trillion dollars one trillion dollars worth of assets are managed by a Bank of America that's a sizable amount of money alright a couple other facts here you know just again kind of showing the importance of it and why were why we as as folks that are dealing in UCCS might be seeing that an increase to that is take a look at the inheritance from a trust and non trust from a non trust sixty nine thousand from indeed someone with the trust 285,000 and you know as we all know when you start having larger and larger sums of money and people are looking to invest there there's no question that that's going to come into contact with our line of work which is you revise article nine UCCS once trees and all that all right and in addition to that look at the types of trust that we have I mean III think that I find this incredibly interesting just like we have with corporations and LLC's and LPS and you know fill in the blank of whatever new organ with LPP es or whatever we have now look at the numbers and types of trusts we can have revocable irrevocable asset protection charitable construction special needs spendthrift tax bypass cotton trust I mean I mean back when I used to practice law which was many years ago you know we really had just kind of a set group of to of of trust that you use now just like we see with corporations and so forth we are truly seeing a proliferation of different types of trusts and again that in just increases the likelihood that we will be dealing with them somehow in our UCC world alright so now that we kind of understand that this is a lot of money and that they're everywhere and that there's different types of them we can kind of now go into another discussion of the infamous trust creation I am and again like I said the truck we've kind of already touched a little bit upon about it but really how it starts in is is that the grantor he and this is a term of art from trusts is that they he she it will pour property into the trust and the grantor it may have thousands of dollars and maybe millions of dollars it could be whatever they want it could be assets such as land or or anything that they may describe this define and they can pour it into that trust alright and he can create he can create as we said a multiple different several different types of trust but at the end of the day if the trust the grantor can then choose a trustee right and that trustee again can take any form it can be a person it can be an entity such as a financial institution it can be a standalone company that manages trusts but again it can can be a multiple different forms but again a trustee is the person who is managing the assets that the the donor or the grantor poured into the trust right and then the trustee has a lot of responsibilities and they have one of the primary responsibilities is to grow the trust is to make sure that the that the assets that were poured into that trust annalee are going to at least maintain but certainly try to grow and become more become more numerous and larger and so they have a lot of responsibilities connected to that alright now as a trustee doing this out of the goodness of his or her it's hard know they obviously are going to be collecting a fee for their services so obviously this is for trustees it is for profit I am but in addition to the trust responsibility the trustees responsibility to grow the trust they also have a responsibility to the beneficiaries to make sure that the beneficiary's needs are being met for the trust and like in this example if the if the trust is set up for making sure that the grandchildren have money for college but to trust these responsibilities to make sure that when that time comes for those children to go to college that that trustee is making sure that those demands are met and those bills are being paid and things of that anything that is connected to that but again that can be anything I just to let you know guys a trust is incredibly flexible it can be set up for a number of different purposes we're just using this one here as education because it's the most common one out one of the more common ones out there but again the trustees responsibilities are to the beneficiaries can be incredibly variable so since we essentially do seem to be spending a lot of time or at least alluding to the fact that the trustee has certainly quite a bit of power here obviously almost like Superman like powers from looking at the picture down there we want to take a look at just exactly what type of powers all right before we get to that type of power of trust we want to take kind of take a look at before and I apologize I jumped ahead of myself we want first take a look at trust creation my apologies there guys like our beloved Uniform Commercial Code there is actually a uniform trust code and so this is going to be the law that kind of underpins the trust law and again you know we were we were commenting about this a little bit earlier this is kind of one of those weird intersections in law where we have to usually uniform codes that are kind of not necessarily colliding I think the word a better word would be intersecting so we have the uniform trust code and the Uniform Commercial Code or the uniform commercial form trust code much like the UCC was created in 2000 it's been revised approximately five or six times depending on your point of view of revisions presently 31 states have adopted some form of the use of the UTC and presently here in Illinois where I'm sitting they are currently going through the proposal of adopting Youth UTC now I guess what's kind of interesting here is is like as we always joke Uniform Commercial Code is not necessarily uniform nor commercial as we can see here the UTC has not been adopted in every state not that that should necessarily impact your UCCS mind you but again understand that if you are doing more work with that with those trust documents in addition to the UCC just please keep that in mind that you also have to determine what kind of trust law that you're working with and how that might impact your due diligence all right so now that we've gotten that taken care of now we can take a look at the duties of the trustee okay as we were saying earlier is that the duties of the trustee they are multiple and varied but I think a couple of words that come out I think that are both of a historical importance but also legal importance is good faith obviously Trust is a good one confidence candor these are all great words but I think one of the the Tudor's stuff that that step up to the plate the most is good faith and honesty that's the trustees responsibility they have to have a good faith basis for their decisions whether that what are the type of investments or payments to the bent to the to the beneficiaries and they also have to be incredibly honest they have a duty to disclose almost everything there's trust reports that they have to generate on a very consistent basis and they have to divulge pretty much everything that they did and so I think that those are two of the most important characteristics that you're looking at and of course the big word here and of course we can't underscore this enough is the word fiduciary I think that is the big under umbrella word here they have a fiduciary responsibility and with that term of fiduciary you know right away from our workings in the area of law that that is a heightened scent a heightened position you have your your duties are at an elevated position than as you were just from a standard average position that doesn't like just your duties as you would see under some general corporate agreements or what have you in a trust you have a fiduciary responsibility which carries with it that extra weight you really have to mind your P's and Q's you really have to make sure that you're doing everything that you need to do to advance that trust and as I also said to be divulging the information so again that responsibility I think is is probably at the core of the trustees responsibilities and obligations and again f duciary I think is a very good term all right we have turning to next we have characteristics of the trust and as you can see here we have empty trust transfer of assets authorization and trust documents okay when you when you start a trust a B D it's just like anything as we were saying had to pour in assets into a trust a trust starts with an empty vessel consider it like when you're when you put flowers in a vows and you have to pour water into it okay well it's empty you got to put something into it so all trusts start off empty right there that's just the way it is right now some legally there are different times when a trust can be the assets can be put into it but understand that all trusts start off as an empty and they need to have assets moved into it all right now the in it for trust they're either going to be deemed funded or unfunded but as I said right now we're starting with the concept that is an empty trust right now the one of the questions that may or may not be asked down the road is is that well can a trust stay a trust and not be funded the answer is yes there are all of some exceptions to where trust doesn't necessarily have to be funded right away and still be maintained as a trust but understand the vast vast majority of trusts they start off truly empty but within a very very short period of time it's not on the same day or same cycle the assets get poured into it right that that pouring in of assets is called the transfer of assets again that's where the grantor is now going to be placing the properties the cash or whatever it may be into that into that trust so that it is now going to be deemed funded and then just like we have with corporations and also with UCCS another word is popping up here and I do want to kind of talk a little bit about this and that is authorization you know we're for a financial institution or any company that is handling a trust before they take anything on or any obligations on there has to be an authorization document right think of it as akin to if you're going to be filing a UCC one or a UCC three and the million-dollar question especially in light of the GM case is like who do we have the authority to go forward with doing this where is that grant of authority all right the same here is applicable to a trust a financial institution is taking on the duties of a trustee or like I said any other person or entity before they can do anything there has to be that authorization that creates that responsibility and that Duty if you do not have those authorization documents then clearly the trust cannot move forward legally so again very similar to what we were talking about with our filings of UCCS where is that authority is it vested and who is it vested in all right and then last but not least we have the organic the trust document which we is much like a corporation you're seeing as an argument as an organic document and as we're going to see moving forward with the public organic record rule that we've had since 2011 that also plays out here with our trust and the importance of that trust document becomes very vital when it comes to your filings of the un-- you see see so that's sort of where we are standing here in terms of the characteristics of the trust and again empty trust you start you transfer the money in make sure you have that authorization and last but not least connected to that authorization is your trust documents the actual underpinnings or creation of the trust which now leads us to polling question number one and with that I give it to my good friend Victor to take it away thank you Dan up to our polling question here in order to receive CLE credit you need to answer the polling question please answer in the pop-up box that is appearing on your screen not in the Q&A box it would be very helpful and the question is polling question 1 what is the value of Bank of America's trust portfolio and had mentioned this earlier um number one seven seven hundred fifty billion to 1 trillion three five hundred billion or four three hundred fifty billion and again what is the recent value of Bank of America's trust portfolio one 750 billion $1,500,000,000,000 poll here and I'm going to send the results to you Dan and you'll see how many people were listening attentively hey there we go work for me winner winner chicken dinner yeah a trillion dollars guys this is like I said it's a sizable amount of money that Bank of America it has under its portfolio and so and if you think about that just that number alone you can understand how many UCCS would most likely be connected to that kind of dollar amount that's a trillion dollars so I appreciate the the fact that 78 almost 79 percent of you guys got that correct so thank you so much so now we will be moving on and we're going to be talking about as I as I talked to you earlier about filing okay and again just like we are talking about with anything with UCCS the importance of who is the debtor is essential for proper filing with with trusts all right so when you're determining where to file against trusts you have to determine who the debtor is and that just stands to reason right and who is a debtor okay we're looking at nine 102 a 2028 the debtor means the following for our purposes we're focusing on Section eight right a person having an interest other than a security interest or other lien in the collateral whether or not that person is an obligor all right debt debtor beans a person having it in as we indicated this is all the guidance this is it that was provided by article nine that's I mean I wish I could tell you that there was some other great a great place to get a definition but this is it so we have to look outside of articles or not outside of article nine to determine who holds the interest in the trust estate and again there are various options for this and we will go through each one over the next few slides nice so as we can see here who is a debtor trust is the debtor and is a registered organization okay it is a separate legal entity it generally holds legal title and you file in the location of the of the trust certain trusts such as Delaware statutory trusts also Massachusetts business trusts are separate legal entities distinct from their suppler or trustees and can generate a whole legal title to the trust estate so the property is actually owned by the trust right in those kind of cases as we're seeing here the debtor is the trust and maybe a registered organization thus the filing should be made in the trust location where it is registered and the location of the said Lord trustee or any other party is really quite irrelevant this is truly like a standard corporate filing of a UCC type of scenario so and so again then the set lor trustee or any other party is really irrelevant the trust the registered organization is what is important here is another example what happens if the trustee is the debtor right now there are certain trusts that are not considered to be separate legal entities not a lot of them but there are a few of them in those cases the trustee generally holds legal title to the trusts estate in a trust for the benefit of a designated beneficiary right in those cases like we see here the trustee is the debtor and the filing should be made at the trustees location I'm the trustee can be a registered organization you know one of the examples that we always we see here in Chicago is the Wilmington Trust Company or a non-registered organization or an individual again in be whoever you wanted to be right right in this scenario you should file in the location with trustee and the general rules of section 9 307 applying to the trustee which is jurisdictional organization for registered organizations chief executive office or place of business if it's a non registered organization so like wherever they write the checks or wherever the wherever the person is sitting or if it's an individual it's the principal place or residence of the individual so if for example if I'm if I'm a resident of Illinois which I am and I'm in this scenario you would file that in Illinois okay if I'm a but if it's a registered organization and I'm registered in state Delaware or my beloved home state of South Dakota you would file in South Dakota so again you start seeing that there are some similarities to trust work that you do see in our general what we would say our general corporate UCC filings so hopefully what the intent of some of this is we're going to try to demystify some of the areas around trust work for you guys right next slide is another who is a debtor what if the trust is a debtor and is not a registered organization right certain trusts are not registered organizations yet they may hold some legal title to trust to trust the state or property in those cases the filing should be made at the trust location following the rules again of a non registered organization that's of the trust there's only one place of business Trust is located in its places that's where you would file so there if again if it's a non registered or trust and it's here in Illinois that's where you file if the plate and now if the trust has more one place of business let's say they have multiple locations the trust is located at that chief executive office or wherever the president sits or wherever to cut the checks that's where you would go and again we're citing 2:9 307 B for that rule and you know now that we've learned you know how to determine who the debtor is kind of gone through all this now we have to determine what the debtor name is so now we've identified the debtor we know who the debtor is in all these scenarios now we have to figure out the debtor name and again just like it is with our standard UCC practice when it comes to corporations that debtor name is so vital to making sure that your filing is proper all right here we have the definition of the debtor under nine 102 again debtor means the following again we're looking at that and then 503 sets forth the rules governing the use of the proper debtor name on financing statements when the trust is involved and now we're going to go through a number of different scenarios in the next few slides and I just want to make sure that you have the language of this of that section as part of the presentation so just so you know this is this is our starting point so the debtor name and here we go when the trust is a registered organization determination of the debtor name is really quite easy right just like again we're looking at a corporation here you use the exact legal name of the debtor found on the organic documents so the documents creating the trust again this is this just found very similar to our corporate filings when we're using a UA UCC connected to say Dan Inc so again now if it's if it's Dan's trust same type of principles apply the name should appear exactly again I can't stress that enough as it is was specified on the organic record of trust truly guys nothing more nothing less this is it all right just think of this guys like when we have our our corporate UCC filings and someone would put Dan liest Inc doing business as you know Dan's towing all right just like that you can't do on a UCC because it's going to be deemed seriously misleading the same is true when it comes to a trust document you use the name as it exactly appears that registered document and if and if it's in if it says Dan liest trust that's the name you use if it says Dan lie is trust in but and number four fourth - seven eight nine that you know data bubble and that is the trick than that is and that name as the name is listed then that's the name you use okay so therefore do not in any way shape or form add any additional information because again or one of the things that we see a lot of someone will list dan liest trust and then it will list Bev Odom trusty all right on that same filing well once you did that you created an entirely different UCC an entirely different name and it's not and and then you're going to fall into the category being deemed seriously misleading right so if the debtor is a trust which is now to back up here you have to trust if the depth excuse me I apologize I'm going to sneeze or guys I bought it give me a sec okay if the debtor is a trust which is not an organization or trustee acting with respect to property held in trust then the trust name that then if the trust is named in the organic documents then you use the name indicated if now no name is specified right so now the trust is just says trust that's all it says right then and only then would you use the settlers name with any other additional information sufficient to distinguish the debtor from a similar from other similar named trusts and things of that nature so again if this trust document just says something like Brooke Trust right then and only then can you really dive into possibly using the settlers name or the brand tours name or things of that nature anything else you do not do that right you use the name of the trust as it appears on the document now the vast vast vast majority of trusts especially modern-day trusts are named so you shouldn't really run into this that frequently but if you do run into that understand that only in in that rare instance would you use the settlers name on your filing of a UCC one right now and one more point here guys before we leave this slide under no circumstance and again none should you name the trustee on your on your now we're talking about your UCC here with your box 1a or 1b here so it does I want to make sure this is very clear under no circumstance should the financing statement name the trustee period I don't again getting back to what we've already touched a little bit about like the doing business as or as I already indicated the the Bev Oda miss trustee do not do this I mean I it just bears repeating we see it a lot on a filings and again we can't stress enough under the changes in 2001 and in 2010 by lifting that trustee in Box 1a or 1b you are truly putting your filing in jeopardy all right so now you can put the trustees name somewhere else on the document if you feel it's important but it cannot be in 1a or 1b right and again the only exception to this rule and again it is so limited but there is that exception is if the trust is unnamed and whose settler and trustee are one in the same right so in that situation where it's just the trust and the set law also happens to be the trustee then and only then can trustees name go in there but understand that it's so so rare but again there's all you know like we as we know in the Uniform Commercial Code there's all seems to be an exception somewhere but again we can't stress enough guys do not put the trustees name on 1a or 1b it just is not again you're going to seriously jeopardize your filing all right we're going to go to the next slide which is the debtors address all right and much like again with UCCS there really isn't any sort of general or special rules regarding the address of the for the trust we all kind of get the questions like whoa canopy Oh box be good for a filing can this but you know you know what are the rules regarding the address and again much like any UCC requirement trusts are no different there are no special rules okay the proper address to use on a financing statement is the address to which correspondence correspondence should be sent that's it all right often filers will use the field as a care of address so whether the communication is addressed to discuss by name or to the name of the set or it should be sent to the person responsible for such communications okay now if you do choose to do that that care of address be aware of the limited size and again this is becoming more and more prevalent especially with our with our electronic filings of the address address field if included care if included care of means the entire address doesn't fit then the information should be referenced in a separate part of the record you know you can do that maybe in box 10 of the UCC or box 17 of the UCC one addendum but again that's if you're doing that in care of filing but again I want to get back to the salient point here which is the address of the debtor is very generic it can just be wherever co munications needs to be sent and just like any UCC it doesn't have to be overly specific all right indication of financing on the financing statement which is our next slide all right so before 2010 as we some of us were around before that day finance you know the amendments and form revisions are required completing item 7 this required completing item 17 of the UCC addendum form right now that's all changed and now the revised form requires checking a box basis I think as item 5 of memory serves me correctly on the UCC financing statement therefore guys you no longer have to file a second page simply to indicate that there is a trust you don't have to do that you just have to check the box on five there is one area of concern though when it comes to checking the box in five and that's the language that says CUC c180 item 17 per instructions I am sure some of you probably come across this all right item 17 on the amendment form is a miscellaneous field for I mean we are kind of alluded to that earlier right the field and corresponding instructions for that section contain no specific references to trust or anything like that so this isn't some sort of catch-all matter for trust so there aren't any special rules here all right the reference to addendum 17 that we're talking about guys was provided simply as guidance to whether a filer could provide the additional information required if the financing statement provides the name of the set war so again we're getting back to that very rare exception the filer again guys is not again not required to use item 17 for this information there's no duty guys to do it any additional information about the trust or the trustee or anything else that the filer wants to provide can go here you know in item 17 collateral field or on an attached exhibit and you always remember guys that additional information must never go in the debtor name yeah I know I sound like a parrot here I apologize but don't do that all right all right so in order to better understand this guys what we're talking about here we do have coming up 13 possible trust filing scenarios that we're going to be walking through but I just I wanted to touch base with you here on this slide that you're seeing now and again you just check that box that's all you have to do moving forward you do not have to do anything in addition to that where the new forms especially since 2011 are truly designed to be as efficient as possible all right so that's you have to just me but again one other thing that we probably I didn't say here and I apologize for not starting this off if it is a trust you do have to check that box I mean it's one of the things that sometimes people forget that they that they well you know we can fix it well I understand you could fix it but if there's a subsequent filings after that who are filed properly by checking the trust document you are just like anywhere else you're going to be suffering from a priority issue so it does have to be checked if it is a trust you have to check that box you can't go to section 17 and collect to uncheck box I'd it you do have to check that box all right and as we see here from this slide this is where you check the box pretty straightforward pretty easy peasy and again this is designed to try to get away from having to indicate it somewhere else on the UCC documenter is some miscellaneous grab bag solution this is designed to again make sure that it draws special attention to that this is a trust document and that trust filing and therefore it's going to be have slightly different requirements all right so now we're going to get into our different trusts filing scenarios all right and we have we have a few of them and so if we'll start off with the first one which it's selling these are pretty easy oh but before we get into that let's talk a little bit about system generic standards here top jurisdictions for filing trusts yes there there's a risk for everything based on both tax and legal reasons here the top four all right and it's not every day that I my home state of South Dakota wins at anything but by god here we are we're number one followed by Delaware Alaska and Nevada all right something else that impacts trusts filings in terms of their number and their scope is the tax-free accumulated trust income and again we have a list here of the states that do do that as you can see South Dakota again is listed Alaska Florida Nevada and again these are the states that are leading the nation in terms of your trust filings not only your creation of trusts but also your filing of UCCS in trust so that's why we have that slide here just to kind of denote guys that if you're seeing an uptick in trust and you're wondering why you're in South Dakota and Delaware and Alaska Nevada this is the reason why there's tax reasons and there's legal reasons in terms of their formation their abilities to be defended against legal attacks and things of that of that kind that's why we have why we have these states leading the pack all right so now we can kind of get into our scenarios all right the first one debtor is a trust and a registered organization in the truck has a name okay so on your UCC one and we're talking about you know your one at you know we're doing the filing here name of trust and address of trust and you file where the trust is registered so this is pretty straightforward this is just like in many situations like a corporation you just on one a you name the name of the trust it's on that registered document and the address is again where the correspondence is sent again fairly straightforward if they were all this simple we probably wouldn't be here I guarantee you that that's true all right the second scenario is debtor is a trust and organization isn't registered but the trust again has a name so this is the Dan liest trust or the or the you know time-wise trust or wherever it may be all right in on your UCC one you have the name of a trust address of the BOK address of trust and again check number five to indicate that it is a trust again we're getting back to that that infamous box five right and you file where the trust is located and that's going to be the place of business and back to one of our prior slides if more than one place of business then the location of the chief executive office and again the best way of thinking of that guys is where are the checks cut all right and if you can figure that out that's where most likely is the physical address and that's where that's the jurisdiction that you're going to be filing it plus scenario three debtor is a trust and organization is not registered the set war is an individual the trust is without a name so it's just like the trust right on one be one of the few times you'll see this the name of the step or not there's no sense there is no trust name 1c is the address of the trust five check the box and again file where the trust is located and again we come keep coming back to that it's wherever that chief executive office is where they where they cut the checks and again as you can see here guys there are a lot of common themes here and that in that commonality is truly Purpose Driven to make sure that we are filing in the proper location in it and that there is some uniformity when it comes to our trust violence right which is something that has eluded us for a many many years all right and just to let you know we actually do have real life examples these have we have stumbled across these a couple of these and so we just wanted to share them with you we won't bore you with all the details but as you can see here there's on the first one one of the boys is the John Doe revocable living trust Trust is established under a declaration of trust trustee is of the trust as a mrs. John Doe she's now she is no longer legally competent there's someone else who's taking care of it Johnny doe and so the question becomes how do I gain the debtor for purposes of the UCC filing statement for filing it you know what's the name now understand you know all of the all these facts about mrs. dope mrs. doe being not competent in persons passed on and on you know at the end of the day here guys know that's really relevant you know what's relevant is the trust is named and once that trust had a name that's the name that you're going to be using on your UCC documents I mean lots of times you know we can the facts you control most of our lives here in the practice of law and but the most important fact here is that the trust was named now that might be a different scenario the trust had not been named but in this case it was so that really is starting point in many cases the ending point the next one below is of similar type title and the real property is held by big city land tile company there's a successor to that but the trust has a name you know now it's just known as trust number nine 83 now again on your UCC what is the name of the trust if the trust is named that's the name that you're going to be using any UCC and again that just demonstrates the power of that organic document if it's been named and that's the name that you use so just Annie's our real-life examples these are things that we've seen that come across our desks here in Chicago and and in other parts of the country here at CT all right so we're now to our polling question number two Victor it's up to you all right thank you Dan we're on to polling question number two for Cle credit please enter in the pop-up box that is coming up on your screen now not in the Q&A box and the question is and what are considered by some to be the top two states for trust formation one California Delaware - Minnesota South Dakota three South Dakota Delaware or four Mississippi Delaware sort of a test and newest postal code here and we have the question once again please answer in the pop-up box not the Q&A box what are considered by some to be the top two states for trust formation one California Delaware - Minnesota South Dakota three South Dakota Delaware and for Mississippi Delaware we've come to the end of our polling questions and again it looks like we have a lot of close listeners here down this is a very nice great yes and you can see the results there way to go guys now we're almost to an a when I saw where I was now where I went to school we rounded up so that counts for an A to me but thank you very much again yep South Dakota and Delaware lead the nation of two very different states for sure but again it's this is based on tax ramifications and also legal ramifications so again thank you guys for paying attention and no disrespect to Minnesota or or Mississippi or even California but for once South Dakota wins alright so there we go all right so now we're moving on to scenario number four debtor is a trust an organization is not registered the suppler is an organization the trust is without a name again we're back to name of the sub we're on one a the address of the trust check the box to indicate that it's a trust right so as you can see we're seeing just some variation these are all slight nuances but again these are the questions that really do matter when it comes to filing your UCCS right trust scenario number five the trustee is an individual and the trust has a name all right and again the most important thing on this scenario guys is the trust is named right so one your one a and use the name of the trust one see the address of the trustee and again check that the box indicates as a trustee and again for the trustee is located it's their principal residence so in this example if if Randy Shay is the name of the trustee and her address is somewhere one two three four Main Street Philadelphia Pennsylvania Pennsylvania that's the address that you use but again on the name of the trust you do not use Randy's name as the trust free 1a you use the name of the trust alright real life A+ example - alright just because we just because we love you guys the debtor of the trust and its name it has two trustees one filing debtors mailing it you know on filing debtors mailing address is both co-trustees mailing addresses they appear in the notices of the in our secure promise earring so here we have two trustees okay okay does a trustee have an address as any other entity would have the answer is yes now in this scenario because we have two trustees what address is important okay here's one of those rare examples where you may have to file two different locations if there hasn't been an address that is one wave shape or another designated all right as the possible address so again what here's a scenario where like we have with UCCS when you have multiple secured parties and we all had some confusions or some layers of uncertainty here's one of those examples where you know I know it seems like a great idea to have multiple trustees and therefore making sure that someone's looking out for things but understand that with when you start getting into multiple trustees and you have multiple addresses that does lend itself to being forced to possibly covering yourself by filing in multiple locations and in this scenario if there wasn't any it's a welcoming place where it was designated as a main address and you just have to co-trustees you would most likely have to file in both locations such as Colorado and Indiana okay but again this is something that popped up actually when I was from an Indiana law firm that was dealing with all right so scenario six debtor is a trustee the trustee is a registered organization and the trust has a name right pretty simple one a dam a trust one see address of trustee check the box right file where the trustee is registered pretty straightforward scenario seven I mean trustee is an organization not registered and Trust has a name one a name a trust one see address of trustee check number five right file where the trustee is located place of business it's more than one location again where they cut the checks scenario eight debtor is a trustee the trustee is an individual the settler is an individual and the trust is without a name so I most like the horse without a game eight when you start reading at the old song Muncy under UCC one on where one be named a settler 1c address of Trustee five check the box as trustee again this is a very rare scenario but it you know again we want to make sure that we give them all to you and plus these principal residents would be the address to use scenario number nine debtor as a trustee the trustee is an individual the Stettler set war is an organization and the trust is without a name on your UCC one a name a suppl or one c address of trustee check-the-box scenario ten debtor is a trustee the trustee is a registered organization the sub ler is an organization the trust is without the name one a name of sub war one c address of trustee check the box I'm going to I'm going to be having check the box all night in my dreams I think I'm saying as much all right scenario eleven debt lore or feel the debtor is a trustee the trustee is a registered organization the set lor is an organization the trust is without the name so again here's one of those examples where the trust is nameless one a name a suppl or one C address of trustee again check the box twelve better is a trustee the trustee is an organization it is not registered the state law is an individual the trust is without a name one be name a cell or one C address of trustee again five check the box principal place of business chief executive office wherever they cut the check that's the address that you use scenario 13 desert is a trustee the trustee is an organization that's not registered the subfloor is an organization the trust is without a name 1c AR 2b1 a name a step or 1c address of trustee again check the box and one last real-life example Delaware statutory trust that has a related fun series the trunk the funds are not statutory entities however they hold assets the fund assets are the collateral for the loan and in reviewing this file you discover that some UCCS show the name of the debtor as statutory trust acting on behalf of and for the account of its series so forth and so forth and so forth there exists some documents between Bank firms that show this language what is the pro er name to use what are the related funds series right this has happened a few times unfortunately and we actually have a slide on this hypo 3 some thoughts you use the Datchet you use the delaware statutory trust name as the debtor even though the statutory trust may have other related funds in the series these are not parties this again this is not part of the name of the trust thus it may not be wise to list them on your UCC right again and if the documentation names not only the trust as a borrower but also the individual related funds that are associated okay as such put both names down as additional debtors if you wish and again clarify that in the collateral statement right and yes this has happened a couple of times okay which gives us to our final polling question pull in for question number three again please answer in the pop-up window that just came up on your screen to the CLE answers here you have to fill this in in order to get CLE credit please do not answer the Q&A box and the question is if the trust has been named in the trust agreement you may one use that name as the debtor name on your UCC filings to only use that name in trust related correspondence but not as the debtor name on a UCC filing three can interchange the trust name and the trustees name as the debtor name on your on your UCC filing and four can only use the name on your UCC filing as the debtor name trust is registered and again banned we have a preponderance of answers here and one of the choices and it is one that's 72% there we go all right good I'll take it yep again the name of the debtor on your UCC fine think of it this much like a corporate document an LLC or an LLP once it's named that's the name that you use no ifs ands or buts about it you know that's that's kind of a starting point that's somewhat of the ending point on this all right so again thank you guys okay we will only touch I know it's 1:00 o'clock so I will be very very quick on searching guys again searching again is the filing is where the heavy lifting is being done just like it isn't anything on UCC so with filing searches can include liens you know federal attack again you're treating it just like you would any other entity whether it's a corporation partnership things of that nature you can search for that all right and under article 9 searches again making sure you use that debtor name search where it's located an RA 9 compliant search to use the exact name if you're going to go that specific but obviously most folks when you're doing an RA 9 search will do a broad-based search but again making sure you're using that debtor name as it exactly appears is always always a good starting point whether you're doing a broad-based search or an RA 9 compliant search and all is just like we are with corporations guys it's always a good idea when you do your filings to make sure you do a search to reflect after you do after you get your filings on up on the records to make sure that you're there the way you want to be again if there you may have done everything absolutely right but the state may have keyed it in wrong or or put it in the wrong location and the filings in the filing queue so always a good idea when you're doing your UCCS whether it's you know and trust or no exception please make sure that you at least consider doing a search reflect on your trust filings all right so wrap up guys trusts basics filings and searching I think that we've kind of touched on them all certainly again this is we're trying to demystify a little bit of the trust world out there and hopefully we were able to accomplish that in this hour if you do have any questions we will do our best to answer them if you've left them with Amanda and Victor and so forth we will get to them and we will answer them as best we possibly can but as they like to say at the lounge in Las Vegas you've been a lovely audience try the veal and I look forward to talking to you sometime down the road so thank you very much