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okay great so hi everyone and thank you for logging on welcome to our second webinar preparing early career researchers for jobs in industry and government organized by the plant postdocs Lac I am Allison Barnes and I'll be moderating this webinar I am a postdoc at North Carolina State University and a plant postdocs lack member so first I'm just gonna give you all a brief introduction into the structure of today's seminar our webinar I'm sorry so it's a 60-minute webinar and in the first couple minutes I'm going to explain the format here and then I will let Sunil Kumar introduce that plant postdoc slack so after that I will be introducing the panelists for today's webinar and each panelist will talk for about five minutes mostly highlighting their personal experiences of navigating the job market so you all are going to be listeners for the first half and in the latter half we'd like you to interact with the speakers so any questions comments inquiries about the job market sure they'll be happy to take your questions and share their experiences so throughout the webinar including while they're speaking during the first half we would like you to submit your questions through the Q&A box and then I will choose some questions from there to present them to the panel for their response so I will do my best to mention who's asking the question and then if you wish to interact with the speakers for any clarifications just use the raise hand feature in zoom and we will unmute you so due to the expected number of participants we're going to have to follow this question-and-answer policy so that we can try to stay organized and on track so at this I'm going to pass it on to Stan Neal and once again welcome to our very first webinar or sorry our second webinar thanks Alison hello everyone my name is Sunil Kenshin Manu Raju I'm the co-founder of plank pose dog slack I'm a postdoc at Michigan State University studying stress adaptation in plants through competitive epigenomics so the idea for plant postdoc slack occurred to me when I was talking to re foster off a postdoc in UMass Amherst and the co-founder of plant postdocs lag so we're talking about how postdoc positions are always transient and then we are constantly in the lookout for a more permanent job in industry and academia and there are so many finer details of the job application process that most of us do not know or do not have the mentors to guide us in the right directions so this creates a huge disparity that's not related to your science or your ability to do the job sorry you our ability to get the job so that's when we thought about cooperative advantage what that means is cooperative advantage suggests that the world would be a better place if the knowledge and resources are shared as much as they are protected so what if we all came together and shared application material or interview tips and resources with each other so this will level the playing field at least for the application and the interview process so together as a community we can peer review each other's application material provided wise share information about opportunities and finally benefit everyone in the process so that was the idea behind starting this group I'll briefly mention the resources that are available you can read see it on the screen we have a slag group to chart to chat about the job opportunities applications and interview process we have a Twitter account where we share information on job ads and other infrared tweets we also we just started a editable Google spreadsheet with current jobs and their status leveraging information from members of plant postdocs lot throughout the world and also through social media so in the future in the near future we are going to come up with a spreadsheet where you can volunteer to enroll your name for peer reviewing and then we will share this with journal editors periodically so that you can gain experience in peer reviewing I will be sharing more details about this on Twitter so these are some of the initiatives that we thought will benefit the plant community and we are new at this and keen to hear your thoughts on this as we grow we want to expand to all other possible career paths for plant biologists including entrepreneurs and science policymakers so if you wish to join our group as if you are a plant postdoc just go and visit plant postdocs comm and then there is information about joining the group if you want to know information about what we are doing you can follow us on Twitter so as part of this initiative we have started this webinar series with the idea that having early career scientist who recently got jobs in industry or academia will be able to share their perspective of navigating this job application process that will be complementary to most other workshops where you have panel members as senior scientists who have experience serving on such committees so right now our plan is to have one academic webinar and one industry webinar in fall and spring each year this is our second webinar for spring 2020 the first one was focused on academia and you can see the recorded version on YouTube channel once again thanks for joining us today and with that I'll let Allison take over okay Thank You Sunil so I will start doing our introductions and sort of experience statements from our scientists and so the first one we will start with is Samantha McConaughey who is finishing up her PhD at the University of nebraska-lincoln and is starting at Bayer CropScience in May I think she just said thank you Allison and I'm gonna attempt to share my screen and so I just have a few slides I thought would be easier for everyone to see them once all right I hope everyone can see that okay okay perfect so I kind of broke it down into three different areas that I thought would be helped obtain the job so I think you need to know yourself you need to have a plan and then you need to take action upon that plan and just a little bit of background so most of my work actually all my graduate work has been in soybeans so I did my masters in the field in plant breeding with dr. Graf and I am finishing my PhD with dr. Heidi Moore on the applied genomic side we we basically are a genotyping facility our lab is and so the first part what I mean by know yourself is definitely take advantage of the word obscenities that I'll get to know you what sort of things do you like to do what would you like to do in a career do you work better independently or do you work better on a team however you motivated how and once you know that about yourself then you can start to figure out how you can work well with others based upon her personality oh sorry if I go in and out says my Internet's not stable but basically know yourself and take advantage of those opportunities that come to you and then have a plan so you can have a career developmental plan that's actually what my PhD adviser gave to me it was a plan that says what would you like to do what skills do you currently have and what skills are you lacking and a big opportunity to do that is wherever you're at right now go online and start finding jobs that you like and copy and paste them into a Word document and keep that word document going and then you will be able to start to see what qualifications you don't have that you need or that you lack and then once you figure out where your gap is it's almost kind of like a literature review then you take those gaps and seek out opportunities to fill those gaps and so you want to know where those gaps are ours is it within coursework that you could take an extra class and statistics if you want to be more of an analyst is it person personal development is it networking opportunities do you want to build upon certain industries and one thing that helped me with the job application was actually cheeky scientist I did not join the Association but I utilized their free resources online as soon as I changed my resume into the format of their resume is when I actually started getting calls about job interviews and the big difference on their resume at the top you have three summary bullet points and you want to customize those to every single job you apply to and one really good tip is take the job description copy and paste it into a word cloud and in that word cloud the word that comes up the most if you think you have that qualification which you should if it aligns with what you've been studying and what you want to do then make sure that's on your resume because they're using algorithms to match you to get through the first phase anyway and so you want to make sure as you said in the beginning sitting all that everybody's on an even playing field so being able to kind of get through that first hoop so an actual person reviews your resume I thought was huge for me and what I utilized in cheeky scientist the next step with applying definitely apply nine months to a year out before a job at least that's what worked for me the job that I got that I'll start in May I applied to in September and I didn't hear about the first interview until November I thought oh there's no way that's been such a long time not to hear from anybody but no it took quite a while versus a different company that I interviewed and got a job offer with they were with a week they reached out so it's pretty variable and that was both within private industry so just keep your options open I kept a large Excel spreadsheet with what job I applied to at what company when and then check the status of it and then when you go to interview be yourself be personable be friendly be kind do background research about the company ahead of time and that way you're really prepared definitely prepare those behavioral interview questions and I would also like to thank the organizing committee for inviting me today I really appreciate it and if anybody has any questions feel free to email me or LinkedIn if we don't get to him today and thanks everyone okay thank you Sam sorry I am still not very good at zoom despite all of our zoom meeting so I'm struggling to remember how to mute and unmute myself okay so I'm gonna go back to sharing my screen okay so our second speaker today is Maria Katharina mayera and she is the breeding insights bioinformatics coordinator for the USDA through Cornell University hello hi I am going to try to cheer my screen to because I have just as lights that are going to call me to to go through my five minutes okay okay so thank you for the invitation I am really glad to have the opportunity to share a little bit of of what I have been learning through my journey and it has been quite a journey this is just a little bit of the geography of the place in from which I came from so we all come from many different places so that also means like very different realities right and we don't necessarily have the information to be able to navigate a system that is even falling as a as a country so I come from the north test point of South America and then I travel to a big city in my country which isn't actually not that small high leaving it a castle big city now and then I travelled to the capital of my country and then I come to the US for my PhD ten years ago and then I move it to eat a canary or for my postdoc in the Berkeley Lab and I stay here for what I consider right now my dream job because I am really happy with with the job thing English I landed so something that I think is in common for for everybody is to that type of journey when you are now trying to get into a job is to trying to join the point of what has been your pure expertise and the type of skills that you has been helping acquiring through the process and trying to join the dots and this is more or less like what I did I I I did something similar to what cemented it is I started to pointing okay what actually I know what I am able to contribute to some any place I say with the skills or knowledge and then trying to join them and go into the target job it means that you are actually keep iterating and changing those skills because not everybody is interested in the same set of skills but if you can have something like an overlapping wish you have a set of skills that you can put together inside of a big private umbrella that is your target job your dream job and you can convey that into the material that you are presenting to them you can get the job or at least you can get an interview and that case me to the first point that is how did you strategize to get these to this position and I basically started interviewing very early I started applying when I was one year maybe in my postdoc and since then I started applying to diverse jobs that look like maybe something that I was interested in doing and that helped me just to get better so this is something that you you learn by training so if you can expose yourself as enough training you can you can do it and I started them preparing my application package very early then industry package are very different and unknown to the academic one so that also means that you don't need the statement for teaching our inclusion things so you just need to put maybe a set of short curriculum but then you keep tailoring your curriculum and your cover letter depending of the of the of the position that you want to get and that usually you get better with practice to see the application that they have posted and trying to replicate the same wording so you can actually get a match so you have to look yourself as you are actually a match for the job and I learned that by keeping preparing my application and get better to to submitting and applying to diverse jobs I use diverse resource I think that and we having a small clump of dog channel replicated into our lab so we use a slack and we having a specific channeling and what it's like to post diverse applications and materials so we use ourself as a networking the lab to to prepare the documents and I was also part of the panacea grin that was a big learn that involves many pies and we have frequently seminar so people was encouraged to share the experience about your publications and then people to use that as a common bank - I think Jeff rose rose Ibarra that was also P I they have almost all the material on lining a github so I have those resource and I use them and I got a lot of help I asked for a lot of help I asked to my colleagues I asked to my mentors I asked mentors not necessarily for my postdoc mentor but I also asked my postdoc mentor a lot so with that I think I just quickly covered what I was asking and I will let the next person the space to talk thank you thank you okay so I will okay thank you very much so we will next hear from Samira Mafi Mogollon who is a genomics data scientist at Benson Hill well I want to thank you for the invitation as well and also for organizing this this is so great I mean I know that Sunil really put a lot of effort in this and I think this is a great opportunity so I guess with everything that was covered I would say for me most of I started applying mostly pretty much I would say six to nine months before I thought my appointment and postdoc was about to finish at that time I never thought about industry before exactly so writing a resume was pretty new for me because only thing that I had at that time was a CD so with that I started talking with my colleagues and my friends who were working in industrial so because I wanted to keep an open mind and basically also started looking at resume I used two different resources like the one that Samantha said I also looked at the cheeky scientist they they also they have like if free I think PDF that talks about writing duress the resume which I found it helpful and then did a lot of googling searching to get resumes and also ask my friends to basically share what they had so I could see what successful people's resume look like and then with that I tried to draft my own resume and as everybody else mentions basically asks a lot of feedback that was from my friends from my colleagues from my advisor and everybody who had experience they asked for feedbacks to improve my resume of course you would want to look at the jobs that you think fit the most and then make sure as it was mentione you do have the keywords that are important for that job in your resume so that means you would have like a backbone resume but for every job you would need to change and tailor that so it is most suited for that particular job so it's not gonna be one resume that you can send everywhere but you have to make whole changes to that still comparing to academia I think it's less materials that you have to prepare for your application now some of the jobs I think do you require in industry also a cover letter and some of the jobs don't really require that like at Benson Hill it was an optional which I decided to write a cover letter and include that um let me see okay I one of the resources I I found very helpful but where the resources similar to what we currently have when I was at MSU the postdoc Association both at the university level and you know departmental level work kind of active I would say in holding some of these type of webinars or just in person after that as to both introduce different career paths and also help you you know to get familiar with what you need what is an elevator pitch what do you need in your resume and all of those so I've been actively trying attend all of these and gather the knowledge it was like about interview one section so I went and learned it's it can be really difficult to try to gather all day formation need for the whole application process in like a very short time so just being able to gradually prepare yourself and collect the different pieces of information that you find useful or at a time I think would be really really helpful and then basically what I really found useful was spreading the word because I mean obviously we're all looking you know online and the job advertisements but I also found it very useful when I talk with people so people actually would know that you are into job markets because a lot of times you might have a colleague or someone that is aware of a position that thinks you're really good imagine they can recommend that to you also you know not working in a conference with people I found those two bills very helpful in being able to find a positions and apply for them and I think with that I would want to end basically the procedure that I started to look for the jobs and pass it to Jorge here thank you thank you okay so next up is Jorge Venegas who is the lead for controlled environment at pairwise plans hi everyone well first of all yes I would like to congratulate Sunil for compounding and setting out these great women are serious I think this is critical for the students opposed don't have access to these chemicals before entering the job market so this is great they intend for the mutation so I just want to talk a little bit about my career path and you don't like passing you all you don't buy the tips you know that I gather like through all these years you know like applying for job getting into a job and being projected to so but I'm not trying to be concise he has in this pipe next I mean and so if after finishing my master degree I returned to my country I spend five years there working for a forestry company he was great but after those five years with his having with my wife returned to us I spent seven months applying for jobs including glad anything so it was super frustrating decided to go back to school and pursue my PhD and this is super important and some already mentioned it is a during her presentation so you when you started a program and that's this is so super important that the students understand you need to tailor your program according to to make yourself more marketable and that's what I did and son did the same thing I'm fortunately for her she had an advisor back to advise you know like how to tailor a program in my case I need to put him by myself but it was super helpful so and that's the first thing that that people need to do you don't tailor your program no matter where you are if yours to the end of you are opposed to trying to bring your new skills you know to be program to make yourself more marketable sacrum and this this is what I learned during my PhD lives so you need to start setting yourself well from the beginning that means regularly finding a profile your Twitter profile and be active active on it every time you get an award trying to broadcast it by adding it to your profile so that's super important and use your university of resources to broadcast it I use the communication office to broadcast my awards and every time when I was invited to a talk conference etc because it's not yes important while you have your profile but also but your future employer is fine fine of you on the web so that's super important so third networking so probably these tips are known you know like totally new from most of you guys but networking super EXTREME important so network network and network all the time vertical horizontal so network we're colleagues and network with you put your employers put yourself out there in those sometimes and concrete situations where you are the only students and the rest are professionals but put yourselves out there so and then you know when you are ready are applying for jobs start applying early as most of the other speakers have been has been said before so apply in all-star applying a year or six months earlier yes before you graduate or you are ready to actually to jump into the job market as frame professors mentors to check your CV resume get feedback attend you diversity workshops for resume preparation and then apply and applying apply for the interview process we ready for technical questions but at Sam and some of the other speaker said well the most important things nowadays are soft skills so be prepared about it so people because organizations want to bring good people and not team this rotor so they want to bring good people they wanna feel you know that you actually are going to be able to work in teams that you're going to be able to to claw will collaborate with people okay but at the end you know having a good resume put together a good seminar when you highlight how your experience can bring the company department to the next level that's super important so the spend time in that in that seminar because if you're applying from the private industry you are going to be asked to do that so put up pretty good seminar do your homework and tailor your seminar based on the company's Pichon and business model that's another big advice so do you weren't the to your home word yes before they start establishing interview with a Twitter people so and that's pretty much my advice think okay thank you so with that I think we can move to the question and answer session and so please I see we have four or so questions already in the Q&A box so I think we'll switch so I'll stop sharing my screen so Sunil will share his and then I will start moderating our questions here so I think while we're switching over I can go ahead I saw I think I had a chance earlier to record the first question was regarding experience requirements so this question asker jimmy-john recently got rejected due to a lack of experience they have just submitted their thesis so they wanted to know if experience is required to get a postdoc while they're applying so they're asking this because the job advertisement asked for three or less than three years of experience when they applied for the job so I think at least two of our panelists did postdocs before I'm taking their positions in government in the industry so do you have any insight to share on when you started your postdoc I I think I did my postdoc without thinking about the need of finding more experience but more because I I still feel like I needed more more of that time into into that research environment before jump into a job and one I think that poster give you also a little bit mode of time to figure things out I have seen that some of the jobs ask you for not too much experience but you can always make it short postdoc it doesn't need to be a long one I I know people that has been one hearing the postdoc and that is enough before they actually move today today to the real job and not the research-oriented one if they are interested in something that is not research oriented so it's not it's not a hard requirement but even one year post off can help you to blow out your your interest or maybe to polish those skills that you want to do half ready for to make yourself more marketable so for me I did have post like experience as well and I also didn't necessarily think about the job market at that point that I did my postdoc however I was feeling the need that I wanted to have experience in a complementary but a little bit different you know field that what I did my PhD in because as you know everybody kept saying it's really important what are the skills so you would accumulate over time and that would determine you know the the variety of the job markets for which I can apply so you know kind of the more complementary but a little bit broader you would make your experiences I think it would be easier to find a job so for example I did a lot of like gos population genetics work during my PhD but I like to have complementary you know knowledge of the genomics and analysis I did you know other works in my purse I could unless you like genome assembly gene expression analysis and I feel like that was able to give me a more comprehensive package as a genomics data scientist versus so I could apply you know these type of positions so it really depends on you know how narrow you want to be or how much experience you want to have I think there is another point to that and that is also the level of the drop so I think also in companies there are different levels so there are there are different levels which require different amounts of experience so much potential e if you would have Cossack experience you might be able to land a different position than if you don't have it again that's not like always 100% true but it could have an effect in the hierarchy of you know how you can also improve inside the company as well awesome thank you okay so the next question I'm gonna ask is sort of the flip side of that which was for Samantha and Jorge did you have any barriers to getting a job without having done a postdoc I guess I'll go first I I mean obviously I don't think I would have gotten two job offers if it would have been a barrier I think it depends on the company and how they see how they see your years of experience so I think because I was in a very applied breeding program but those years that I worked planting and organizing field structure really helped me with plant breeding jobs but actually the two jobs I got offered although they're in plant breeding they they weren't field work they're being a research scientists essentially a quantitative geneticist so I don't think that they were barriers and I knew I wanted to get out of school right away I liked experiences I liked fast paced and a lot of resources so postdoc was just something that I saw as if I absolutely had to I would do one I think they're really great if it's if you want to learn a new skill set or diversify yourself I think postdocs are a great opportunity just for me at the time it's just not something that I wanted to pursue yeah I would say yeah that would depend on the company there are companies so many startups or actually they require having a post those and that will totally depend on the leadership team there are companies that's a really value you know your expertise that you you have created doing your PhD or master's degree and sometimes you know yes like a few months of experiencing internships so does a pretty good value valuable experience so yeah I would say in my personal case well my career path they started like a while ago like at 20 years ago so I I had I had my experience and to some breaks between you know my master degree and PhD before my master degree also spend some time working Central America so that really helped you know for me actually to get a job without having a postdoc but that some said you know that if you have a chance to have to to have a postdoc that does really help you landing a job but at the same time that the pay rate is different from somebody a scientist that I have a postdoc versus a scientist that doesn't have a postdoc so that that's that's good I mean that his body having a post variable is no required most of the time though okay sorry I sneezed and now my dog is upset so I'm gonna apologize right now if he starts barking in the background so we have had several questions on this so the question is in regard to needing a work visa impacting your job in industry so one of the question asker said that a company essentially said come back to us when you contact me again when you have your green card and so how does needing visa sponsorship impact your ability to work in industry anyway yeah I will I will probably take that the first time on that one so again that would depend that would be panel of the company that would depend also in the political stage that you know that the country's is going right now it's a little more difficult but you know like we have companies that this keep you know hiring people I'm sponsoring people without a green card so so I would say now that that sort of depends I don't think people need to stop applying you know for jobs if they don't they don't have like like a radial sponsor so I think you know if you are a very good scientist and you have experienced that company ones are required so they will they will they will sponsor people so I think that that's the main thing so if if the skills are there and you are a goo goo personal you're gonna be the good feel for that department at that specific job so companies are gonna are gonna be able to pay that I got my green card last year in July and I has been applying for jobs with people actually offering me jobs and telling me even some of them willing to wait so it's possible of course if you see something that say only citizen quote you don't apply at least at some of the for instance USDA positions they are strictly for citizen so I I cannot apply to those positions because it's not really worthy of neither Dave time or my time right but my point was more like to say it's possible you can find places you can apply and in some of them even they are flexible enough that they are willing to wait if you are in the process or maybe to offering a sponsorship this may be more easy to do it when you already have your credit card by sure but it's not that is going to so be something that necessarily stops you is another part of of the of the things that you have to check in the in the process okay great thank you so now I'm going to I'm reading through all of your cue A's and some of you are asking sort of similar questions so I'm gonna try to combine these into like a multi-leveled question here so the first part of this is that as you were leaving your last position how do you start to initiate the conversations with your P I say maybe you're in the fourth year of your PhD or the last year to six month of your postdoc that you're ready to move on and look for positions and finish up where you're at and then secondly and thirdly to that how much support can you expect from your PI so some seem to give inside a referral so students and postdocs and some are just like well good luck let me know what you find out so what were your experiences there and then lastly did you find that it was okay to indicate in your CV or resume that you were working on finalizing your thesis so one of our question askers has done that on their thesis and CV and has not received any good feedback despite you know indicating that they are finishing up in a few months so that's kind of a big question but I thought they all three pull together go first so I think probably will depend on your advisor and the general maybe environment and culture that you're in it personally my experience was positive during my postdoc my advisor was very supportive she even suggested me to look at my resume and was very open to that and happen you know always supporting with recommendation letters and everything I still think it's really mportant that you do have the conversation and you kind of know when as you know that the actual time that's originally you know plan to end that position because there should be a clear conversation about that and you know logically your advisor also knows that you need to be in the job market for awhile before your time comes up so I think they usually would understand and would help you but it's also important that you keep them in the loop and basically not say hey I found a job in two weeks and I'm leaving but you want to you know have them in the loop and I believe they would be supportive to you and give enough time to kind of wrap up some of the parts of your work before you would leave and make sure that they know this so they know that the project is in good hands at least certain stages that you're talking about I think just being able to have a good honest conversation about your plans and you know how would you do this transition with your advisor would actually help to have a nice conversation supportive you know environments for everybody that would be I guess my recommendation anyone else have thoughts on that or should I move to your next question okay so we have several questions again that I'm pulling together these are about the tricky situation of negotiating your salary post offer so does anyone have any advice or resources to know if your offer is fair and sort of how do you go about doing that negotiation how much you know what can you expect and you have any tips on that I would that's always always tricky and I always said the resources that you can use are your networking and that's why I keep saying that word make word network because I always help you know that you are gonna have people friends that they are working in other companies know that when they are you're working out you're applying for but you know they have they proceed the same way more position that you are applying for so they can give you feedback there is other you know web sources like blast door I think so I think this one of them you need to pay for it but so that sometimes you just find you know like arrange at our range really give you a pretty good sense you know what what is the day Saturday that you will probably need to negotiate with the company but it is pretty much you know like what do you think you really value your real value is in it your market how comfy you are with us already and of course you know the other benefits that accompanies a friend you know sometimes depending on the company you're getting you know part of the thoughts of the company so that is also you know pretty pretty good the stock part of the package so I don't see in salaries yes the only thing that you need to you know like think pay attention to is also you know the entire package but that's what I think but using your network I agree with its Jorge on that I think it really helped me both of the jobs that I got an offer with had very different processes for negotiating salary one company upfront told me this is a range that we're willing to pay you and based upon your interview process will offer you something of that range and so that was pretty straightforward although always know that you can negotiate or counter if you'd like I knew I wasn't going to move forward with that so I didn't negotiate in that process but with the other company I did negotiate and I think it is that if you think that you weren't given your value to talk with others that you know that work at company he says Jorge said in similar positions and they can give you feedback on it I think that was very enlightening for me and something that I had learned and they were very receptive when I when I went back and asked for a salary increase so I think that you just have to be willing to put it out there and have your reasons the justifications for it as long as you're not rude about it in my personal opinion and you're open and honest about it they're not gonna take away your job offer just by you negotiating salary as long as it's as long as it's within reason of course I think we expect you to negotiate and so that is the first point so don't worry about having to get into that conversation because it's something that they expect and they are actually more used to you than do it to do it so you are maybe the first one the first time landing a jobs so you don't know how to do that but the people that is hiding they know how to do that so the negotiation is something that is expected and people is not going to feel surprised because you are bringing that to the table if if you have a number that you know that is kind of your lower bound and you are not willing to negotiate because it's something in terms of your expectation or family needs that also is good so it helps you to know if that is a an offer that you can consider if definitely is not for you and for me I I went I look into the number for instance that similar positions were paying in different databases like h-1b visa they have a certain requirement to be paid they cannot be lower than the national people he suffer so that type of a numbers can maybe help you to give you an idea of how much a similar idea is being paid and then network of course so my advisor has seen many postdoc getting jobs so he might have a better idea of which are the numbers that are being offered in different industry jobs or academia so I went and asked and actually something that we put in really being say in the in the lab to us before we leave so they can help with the negotiation and even email my PhD advisor with one of the offer that I got asking him if that was something that was in kind of in they mean in what he have seen before and that helped me to figure out and then making an offer a counter offer for for the hiring process he it went okay it's not a I I think is you are more afraid than than what you choose okay great so the next question is what did you think was the best way to get to know the companies that you are applying to so you all spoke a lot about tailoring your cover letter tailoring your resume to the specific job and so we can look at a job listing right we can read and look for the keywords but what about the company overall what did you find was the best way to get to know where you are fine so the best sorry you are saying like the best way to know the company yes I think they yeah how is what's the best way to know the company so that you can be sure that you're tailoring your resume and your cover letter appropriately yes yeah there is a lot of information out there you know the company so where you can actually see videos you know the company like it's like being focused and the mission vision and you know business model of the company that's important so because that's going to give you the sense oh like them pretty much you know where the company is going what products the company is delivering what is the structure of the company who who are who is the leadership team in the company so CEO CEO by presence etc so you can find you know the name of those people you can find you know the background of those people so that is going to give you an idea you know who actually is building out the company who leave the company so that's that's pretty much the homework that you need to do just before establishing up the first contact with a with a with a company that is a lot of information out there that you can use okay great one other question regarding the application process so a lot of applications list techniques being advertised that you should know when you're applying for this position what how did you find was it important to have knowledge regarding all of the techniques being advertised or was there sort of more of a percentage that you needed to know I think that the lease is kind of a wish list so that is all the techniques that they wish the ETL candidate has and because his that is a description of an EDL profile you don't necessarily expect to half the person that takes every single box but in kind of thing breathing into it you can you can figure out which are kind of the most important alleys let's say I was reading application that listed bioinformatics skills but they were not mainly about by informatics and I don't have too much of a wish to come back to be a web a person working 100 percent or 50 percent even in the wet lab so that was kind of more in a position to which I won't apply but then for others a time they offer they were asking maybe for some a skills that I don't have but the main skill so the one that would more likely impact the type of job that I was going to do I have then I will apply to that one so I think about priorities right prioritize in the list so if you only can cover the bottom of the lease and you necessarily can cover it uses locally but maybe not but even sometimes it's just worthy of apply they might be interested in finding people that have the skills that led them to learn assume enough that they can be productive so that is even something that you can highlight in the cover letter yeah maybe I don't have experience in this and that but you know what I can I can learn that quickly so it depends of how you how you see yourself doing the job in terms of their of the lives of their of the techniques being a problem for for the performance and I want to just say that I totally agree with what she was saying like personally when I went for my on-site interview like I was asked that one particular skill that if I do have that and well my answer was no not at this point but that really didn't prevent me from getting the job because I think as Katherine if I'm correct was talking about that yes you need to actually show them even though if you you're not having a hundred percent of the skills which mostly it's not going to be the case you're still able to learn that and are eager and excited to learn new things and basically can add to that so I don't really think if you don't have a hundred percent you're not going to get the job we do need to also show people that you do like to you know improve and acquire new skills great okay so it's we I think we have three more minutes so maybe time for one last question here do any of you have advice for applying for a job without an advertisement so say we're interested to apply for a specific company but they're currently no job vacancies they're posted online what are your possible options in that scenario I would say network I think actually I that's one thing I wish I would have done sooner I didn't actually start telling people that I knew that I was looking for a job until probably four to five months after I had already started applying and in the end that that led to opportunities that I ended up dismissing because I had already gotten a job at that point but those are really good opportunities that were not posted on a website anywhere that were told to me just through networking so I do think it's really important then the other panel has touched on this too to tell people early ask them for advice it's really good especially if you're not from somewhere and grad school can be extremely isolating so keep putting yourself out there and making those connections and asking people for help because they want to help you succeed because everybody has been in that position before and so I think that's at least helps me learn about job opportunities that weren't necessarily advertised yeah I would say reach out you know to human resources even though there is no you know like job postings in that specific moment and it is diet specific time companies are always looking for talent you know for good talent so if if you are interesting a company and you really like their company at the business model etc yes sing a note and send your CV and resume to the Human Resources people if they like it they are going to reach out you know today hiring manager to the manager you know the that that person's gonna fit the best you know to that specific group and they're gonna keep you in mind for later opening so yeah do that network okay well I think with that or right up at about the hour mark so Janelle was there anything else you thought you would like to share as we wrap up today's webinar yeah I mean I just wanted to thank all the panel members it was really interesting to hear different perspectives to of the panel members had got jobs after the PhD and to did their postdoc so we try to have a diverse panel of members who can talk about their experience so I hope everyone attending benefited from their experiences Allison can you pull up the final slide yeah we just wanted to let you know if you are a postdoc in plant related fields go to our website www.plenous.com and then if you want to join our group you can join our group using going through the website and also we are active on Twitter please follow us on Twitter for all informations yeah and one of them asked me a question on the chat so with the list that we are preparing for the peer review we will talk about it more on Twitter so if you want to know more about it follow us on Twitter and then we will keep you posted that's all for today's webinar and I want to thank everyone for attending it I want to thank Arif for his help and I want to thank Allison for a wonderfully managing this webinar and of course all the speakers for taking their time thank you thank you