Help Me With Sign Ohio Banking Form

Industry sign banking maryland notice to quit computer

[Music] hi i'm andrew hilton i'm the director of the center for the study of financial innovation which has been in virtual mode since god only knows when we've done about 180 videos on the same sorts of topics as we used to cover in the real world primarily banking but lots of other issues we've interviewed a number of figures in the banking industry we've covered a whole range of things we put them up on our website and i guess we reach a few more people than we did when we were in the real world i think today however is treat today we have one of the disruptors or self-proclaimed disruptors of the uk banking scene ann bowden who founded and is the chief executive of stalin bank stalling one of the challenger banks one of the most successful challenger banks i noticed that it apparently went into profit in either october or november last year uh which is something that very very very few challenger banks can say uh she has agreed to talk about the book that she has published it's called banking on it how i disrupted the banking into how i disrupted an industry not exactly shall we say a shrinking violet cover of the book is actually violet but she is certainly not a shrinking violet my colleague leighton hughes uh and i will ask her questions but she gets is free to talk about whatever she wants to talk about and bowdoin is as i say the uh the chief executive of starling but she had a career before starling she was gosh i've written all this down somewhere uh she well let's see she spent 18 months at allied irish banks she spent two years at rbs she spent three years at abn amro she originally came from swansea she went to swansea university she has an mba from middlesex university but she's been around the uh the financial industry for a very long time she had a very good reputation uh the book is of course terribly self-deprecating but she doesn't brag about the reputation that she had though she clearly had entry to shall we say the senior levels of the banking industry senior levels of funders um let me ask you first of all anne are you really a banking disrupter is stalin a disruptive bank or is it just another challenger bank just tell me how you see disruption in the banking industry see i believe that all the big banks can copy starling in terms of introducing features for consumers and small business what they can't do is actually copy our cost base so we have a real cost advantage which is sustainable and that is how we're going to beat the big banks and how we're going to get market share and how we going to be the banks of the future see my background is um i have a long career in in banking and i was at allied irish banks and i was there understanding i went in the post-financial crisis to do the turnaround i was chief operating officer and i spent a lot of my time going to all the numbers trying to figure out how we were going to change this organization and then i went around the world talking to banks in various countries asking them what they were doing and they were all telling me the same story we're going to take all the transactions and put them on mobile we're going to transform the technology we're going to take the branches we've got nice sofas in them and the world is going to be different and better but i did the numbers i did the financials and it didn't add up the only way you're going to really disrupt an industry was buying well by starting from scratch starting the scratch with one transaction and very very new technology and stalling's about taking the very best technology in the world and building a banking system from scratch one transaction one line of code at a time and creating something very different that's actually high growth and profitable and if you get those two magic um sort of um elements then you have a sustainable another so you're not a disrupter you're just a cheaper version of the existing bank without a legacy right the legacy that kills the existing banks disrupter is all about how you're going to do things and how you're going to do things dramatically differently right so if you think of what you know sort of what amazon has done for shopping what it's actually done is to is to make it very very easy and very very efficient to do something and what we've done is to do that to the banking industry i don't want people going to say using the the the the analogy the the amazon of banking because that's not what we are um but i set out to do something very different i could have done it differently we could have done it differently we could have bought a banking package and we could i have tried to do the easy stuff we did the difficult stuff building new technology and new ways of processing current accounts that's the key the difficult difficult thing is the current account right everybody was trying to pick off little bits little niches of financial of the financial sector like oak north for instance you went to the heart of what you saw as banking is that yeah and the difference is is by going for things that are really really difficult to do and do them better than anybody else and do them cheaper than everybody else you can actually provide this service that is really differentiating our cost of funds is something is less than 10 basis points so if you think of the new entrance to traditional challenges what they are basically doing is using a banking license to take deposits in at you know anywhere between half a percent and two percent and lending them out what we are doing is providing state of the art the best possible technology to support a current account and because it's so good and people flock to it then that cost of acquisition of those of that funding of those deposits is very very low and then we have that very very strategic advantage it is said i have heard uh bankers conventional bankers conventional retail bankers say it costs anywhere between 30 and 80 pounds a year to run a uh a current account would that be would that be fair in the traditional banks yes um so so if you think of why stalin is as it is at the moment a lot of the new banks were founded by people who um were either sort of from the wholesale investment part of the banking industry um or from or people who knew nothing at all and were tech people who wanted to build something very different i'm a banking technologist i had a computer science degree in 1981 that spent my career in banking doing big big banking technology projects and running big budgets i knew that if we could get this right we could actually change the dynamics so what we set about doing was to create this machine using the best technology and what we do is that we capture those deposits at a very very low cost base a very very low cost to us and then the machine is basically um the cost space of running it all is covered by integer change and then we have very very low cost of funds and we can deploy those low-cost events in various different ways but this is oddly enough oddly enough you've followed the same route as uh as your friend tom blomfield in that um marketplace is a sort of help and spoke system you're bringing in all sorts of other third-party providers and selling on their services through uh through the styling platform right yeah but that is not where our revenue is coming from at the moment um a lot of um platform banking is what we all talk about as the holy grail it will be why when we get everybody using the platform when we get to the size of of amazon we can provide lots of things on our platform to lots of different groups and we have the most advanced marketplace um probably in europe for banking products it has been psd two compliance from day one we built the technology um api enabled but that is not where the revenue is coming from today that is where that is something for the future that at the moment is not the source of the revenues and when people say that these models can be supported by just marketplace that people these models are going to be fueled by you know the the revenue you get from switching your utility suppliers i don't believe in that so where is your revenue coming from our revenue is coming from net injuries income and interchange we also have various services we provide such as transaction banking services so we provide transaction banking services in the similar way the big banks provide that service and we are probably one of the biggest operators in that new style transaction banking space banking as a service as they provide you've also been a big provider of loans through civil and the bank the bounce back lending scheme the bounce back lending scheme carries with it the threat of you know 40 percent defaults i read in various places i mean has that been a big uh revenue generator to you or is it something that you worry about going forward i think that it was quite a differentiator when the government set up these schemes banks had to decide whether they were going to support our customers or not a bit of the back story to um to business banking at starling we originally started providing retail banking we had a huge demand for business banking and we were awarded a hundred million from the capabilities innovation fund this hundred million allowed us and it's a grant you know and it's it's it's not debt it it's we don't have to pay it back and it's wonderful absolutely fantastic what it did they've given it to us okay what it did was allow starling to really compete with the big banks for sme banking if you think what why that fund was was set up the capability in the innovation fund was set up to um right the wrongs of when the financial crisis happened and rbs took a huge amount of government funding government bailout money and as a as a um and to as a remedy for that they were told to sell branches and they couldn't they couldn't separate the systems so basically they said okay you put 750 million into a fund and you can give it to those banks that can compete with us and starling was it was decided that stalin was capable of competing with rbs and that's why we were given 100 million and that 100 million allowed us to build some of the best technology for small businesses in the world and therefore we built this capability to service small businesses i mean that was there when the when the sybils and bibbles schemes started so we were ideally placed to be enough to to to do that lending our customers needed it and we could have decided no no we're not part of that but we decided to embrace it so what percentage of the uh of the civil and bank vote bank bounce back loan business actually went to your existing clients um our client base is growing substantially and some days we have something between 700 and a thousand new customers um of something about between 10 and 20 percent of our customer base tend to sign up for a bibles or siblings learn i mean just a small thing which comes to me as you're talking about that and that is that there was never any kind of blowback on the idea that large sums of 755 or whatever it was million pounds uh went i mean 100 mil 100 million pounds went to a bank that is two-thirds owned by a venture capitalist right i mean isn't that a subsidy that that perhaps you know ought to have been examined a little bit more by the press well i think it was um examined by the press i think we had a huge amount of um visibility um if you think of where that money has gone to it went to nationwide it went to um it was gone recently gone to virgin money um it came from um rbs and all nationwide is a mutual virgin money and stalin are not yeah all these companies are owned by well department of mutuals where all these companies are owned by um unlisted funds either list of vehicles or they have private equity ownership my colleague leighton has been flagging that he has a couple of questions for you like yeah i have a few questions um so i i was wondering what you thought about um the proposition of um fees uh on accounts i mean as far as i'm aware you only have one fee which is the seven pound per month the business toolkit but i know a lot of well monzo and other competitors they're looking at trying to get a little bit extra revenue from that i mean are you do you have what do you think about that and or is that something that you're just not going to touch you mean premium accounts or for premium or otherwise well the killer the killer for retail banking are old chairman sir brian pierce who used to be chief executive at uh or chairman of midland uh the killer was free free banking he railed against it despite the fact that he was pretty left-wing really uh he thought it was a disaster for british banking uh how do you feel about free and freeing credit banking okay um most the banks say that they lose vast sums of money in current accounts and um and internally they argue that current account is a loss leader to cross seller products um i think if you got your cost base right it wouldn't be a loss leader and i think that it's a question of allocating the cost correctly in the organization i think that current accounts are profitable and um trying to charge for them on this basis um is simply because other ways of charging for the product have dried up so as the banks the big banks have been told not to charge for um bouncing direct debits or not to charge for people going into unauthorized overdrafts or people going and using um their their account in certain ways you know as all those other ways of charging for over of um charge mccarran accounts have dried up they have been forced to charge for those accounts i think that all the big banks would like to charge for current accounts but don't want to be the first mover and the great thing about startling is we can make profit without charging for current accounts because we have a better cost base and a controlled cost base and the better cost base is that you don't have the branches i mean to what extent is that this the really the key cost advantage that you have over others real estate effectively yeah if you think that some some banks have 50 000 i.t staff we have 150 and we build our own coat we employ the best technologists in the world to build the software you also don't have branches so there's two things going on here there's no branches and a better technology base and those two things together mean our cost base is low and we will be profitable and we don't need to charge for current accounts so go on big banks start charging your current customers for for current accounts i mean you you do you you stress that you have world-beating technology i would imagine every bank says it has world-beating technology what other banks can't say is that they don't have the real estate it's the absence of branches surely that is your particular cost advantage do you have any other cost advantages over exactly i think that as somebody who spent her career running the technologies of the big banks i couldn't change their organization so i quit to start a new bank i was a graduate computer science initiative uh into lloyds bank in 1981. i ran technology at standard chartered bank i was a banking consultant in the early 90s at pricewaterhouse i went to zurich in the 90s and ran technology in zurich for ubs i was chief information officer for am corporation the biggest insurance broker in the world i ran transaction banking across 34 countries arabian ambro with huge technology budgets i ran budgets of billions i realized the banks were looking backwards they couldn't fix their technology and the brave thing to do was to quit my job to start a new bank with new technology so the technology is different technology is different or is it just simply that you don't have all those layers i remember that the time it took for rbs to absorb i don't think it ever did absorb the technology of uh natwest when it took it over i think it took 10 15 years and there were still still two systems you only have one system it's lean and hungry but that doesn't give you any advantage over other new entrants does it they all have that no they don't majority of new entrants buy a banking package starting is different in that we actually decided to build it and we built it because to be honest we had the confidence to do that you know the it wa in the majority of new banks by a pancake banking package from temenos or from um you know of mambu or whatever what we did was to build something we built it in a way and we built it from one line of code to support our business and it'll support hundreds of millions of customers it is it is it has been built to scale and to be resilient and the reason for that is it's very unusual to have a committed science graduate deciding to start a bank the one thing that's going to work is the technology and the one thing you do well one of the things i take out of the book is that comment where you say well for god's sake i'm a computer scientist tom blomfield is a lawyer however i have to say he's i'm not sure whether he would entirely endorse that uh leighton you have another question yeah so i i completely um get your emphasis on the technology and the value that that brings um i was wondering um your before christmas i read read some read some interesting pieces about jp morgan and lloyd's sniffing around because they like your technology goldman has got the marcus a very successful marcus product i was wondering you can surely see why someone would want to buy starling and but you you don't want to go down that route you you want the an ipo soon look i i've always said that um i i'd never sell out to a big bank um the yeah we've got we got our sights on an ipo we don't know where's when it's going to be done um but stalling something's doing really well at the moment and the what's actually happened is during the pandemic there's a huge shift to digital just like you know people deciding they're going to do everything on on e-commerce sites and shopping sites people expertly need a digital solution for their banking and we're doing really well and it's very exciting being in an organization that's now profitable as well and you don't know how important that is they fintech bank having the two things together is quite unique being profitable and having high growth what one thing that's that's bothered me in the past is when you talk to people who are setting up new banks um they tend to many of these these accounts may be card based digital whatever it is tend to be add-ons to their existing banking relationship how many how what percentage of your um retail clients actually put their salaries directly into into styling and use that as their primary account do you have that do you know that figure difficult to actually figure out what's a salary not a salary right because people have this salary in all sorts of ways and i think the important thing is to do the calculation on the average balances and the average balance held in a stalling count is equal or a little bit more than on a traditional bank we have an average balance of something like four to five times the balance on a monto account um so so stalling's branding is a bit different um we've never been just starting with stalin bank um we have um we have an older demographic our customers tend to be late 30s and upwards they tend to be using it for the sainsbury shop not just for the coffee in town so it tends to be a card that people value and use for mainstream spending rather than a an additional card you know they you want a card you may take out with you when you go jogging just in case you lose it you know you wouldn't do that to your styling card you're probably more likely to take it to sainsbury's and um any more likely using digital wallet but it's a different sort of thinking and that's why our average balances are higher this also means that in the lockdown that spending is continued we only get about um something about 10 to 15 percent of our transactions were pre the lockdown um international transactions um they were more likely to be used as people's everyday bank account and therefore when the when the lockdown happened the um the those transactions disappeared uh but the other new banks a higher percentage of those transactions were actually international yeah so we have so during this period um we have done reasonably well because the volume of customers has increased um some interesting stats for us the longer a customer is with us the more they use the account the more recent the cohort of joining us the more affluent and the more they spend on their account more recently our customer numbers have gone up and up and up and more of our customers are business customers and then when you take all those things together you work out we have for more than four and a half billion of deposits um and and and that shows how valuable these customers are i'm really fascinated by i i it would fit with with my sort of intuitive feeling about starling that you're not going for the revolut the monzo crowd as much as you're you're going for the next the next cohort up both demographically and also in affluence and i think that you know i have to say i think that's a particularly attractive group of course starlings i was i thought the name was a bit dodgy after all starlings are in serious decline you keep talking about a murmuration of starlings but if there is any bird in this country which is threatened it's the starling uh you will you will no doubt survive that um i want to ask you one thing as you were as you were moving as you were putting styling together working with it the press was very important to you you obviously are shall we say extremely good at using the press and i wondered if you if you felt that there's always been a sense in britain of sort of tall poppy syndrome that people come along and if you're too successful they want to cut you down did you feel that the press was helpful did you feel that the press was looking to sort of big up a fight where no fight really existed or was it actually supportive of what you were doing i noticed a certain ambivalence to a few articles that appeared in the ft in your book yeah the first two years um i really thought that the press were not helping it was really really difficult and the the first couple of years it was definitely um you know there's a few press articles early on that kept being dredged up which weren't particularly supportive um and then uh i think that we started then getting real traction and that real traction meant that we had real case studies and people started talking about the fact rather than the fiction as soon as you had real customers and real ratings um that people could refer to um that is when this all became far real far more real to us um yeah we we're an organization with a mission and a vision um and i'm vocal about it and you you said it's at some place it's somewhere in the book that you'd like to give 10 to the shares of the company to the employees and you'd like to ensure that they actually got rich rather than merely hoped to get rich um how are you going to do that well you've given 10 percent of the company to the staff you have done that yeah you have so we allocated um so something like 23 24 of styling is owned by the staff and myself um and we gave um that's what the situation is now uh in the summer of last year we we gave 10 of the company uh to the staff i noticed that um you know the whole pale male stale syndrome i looked at 70 or 17 pictures of your 17 top executives seven of them were male uh feet 10 of them were female not one of the males was wearing a tie i also looked at uh your board which was somewhat slightly more male not one of those including uh including your chairman was wearing a tie i thought how very woke of you i thought but you know this is um i noticed all i i i'm not sure i was terribly sympathetic about that being somebody old and old and male but um but is is diversity uh built into the the the dna of the bank yeah we don't have to do a lot to attract um fantastic women to the organization uh because we're out there and great women want to join us and great women do well you know we have to do better at other sorts of diversity um you know the the and we're trying very hard at that and for every organization can do better um and we're trying very very hard and to figure out what we can do um you know the the black lives matter was was something um that shocked all of us and as an organization um we are working very very hard to figure out how we can create a much more diverse workforce despite the fact that we're doing well on on gender we shouldn't congratulate ourselves across the board look let me go back a little bit there was one thing i wanted to ask you about which i forgot and that is the relationship to the post office i mean the post office you have used as a sort of asap's branch network and that is both obviously smart business but it's also socially extreme extraordinarily important particularly in areas like wales where you know many towns every bank has gone but the post office remains how viable is that and and is it actually working for both sides it does work very well and the and the great thing is it's it's small businesses paying in takings because they you know they say they are that they're taking um you know cash in that's all they have to do is go into the branch into the post office and hand their their cash and coin over the counter and they actually get a receipt on their phone before they leave the counter you know that's that's groundbreaking um and it costs us money we pay the post office um but it is very successful um and we are you know connected to those post office gives us a huge advantage in getting um cash and coin services out to a wider group of people and does it is it available through all of the post offices leighton you had a question yeah um so i the khalifa review is um uh im possibly imminent uh i was wondering um you know was there anything you were particularly looking to see in that review um i note that there are early indications that there will be a suggestion of easing of listings and easing of visas i mean is there anything beyond that that you and stalin are looking for in that important review um i'm on one of the committees of the khalifa review so i don't think it's for me to um to announce uh ron's report um the i think that we have a huge opportunity to make fintech a really core industry in the uk um i think it is a lot of work has gone into the report a lot of people working on it um i think we'll have to wait till ron khalifa publishes if you were to look three or four years ahead um describe to me what you see as starling is it going to continue to be built around current accounts or will it become a business you know small business lender with a current account attached as it were where do you see the growth domestically internationally what kind of demographics are you looking at i think we're getting it getting bigger and bigger in the uk so more people switch to us than any other bank you know more people switch to us than barclays or or lloyds or hsbc so i think they will get bigger and bigger and approach some of the market share of the big banks in the uk um we will um add more lending products as people need those we will probably add more um services that people need we are applying for a banking license in ireland and we're using island as our base to pass but into the rest of europe um and so if i look together four or five years ahead i think people will be starting saying oh yeah nearly some banks in the uk well there's barclays and there's lloyd and this darling so i think that we will become mainstream um it is important to us to be in a market that has depth uh and i think by then it will be in several european countries as well i am not um i'm not naive enough to think that you can enter another country and do exactly the same thing as uk so many people have gone to the states um and and it just doesn't work um so we're sticking to europe where we have regulation which we understand and is supportive um and uh we will take one country at a time but it's europe is where we focused and not the us okay well let me ask you then how you see the uk banking system three or four years or four four or five years ahead will the uh the mega banks continue that the big high street banks continue their dominant position will they still be uh the big high street banks do we actually need banks or will the payment services actually do all the work that we currently expect of banks how do you see the next stage in in banking more generally i think it's very interesting i think the big thing is how the big banks try to um adjust their cost base to respond to the revenue streams being revenue pools been shrinking so um and some of those banks will decide they are uh going to focus they can't afford to do as much as they did in the past they'll decide either to provide certain segments and not other segments they'll have to cut their cost base and they'll have to decide what they're going to do about their technology are they going to migrate to a new platform perhaps take them seven years they have the money for it but do they have the time or they're basically going to build new applications on top of existing applications i think the route they take will be um will be quite interesting but they've got to do something the revenue pools are going to be shrinking and people like ourselves they're gaining market share so you know in those big banks they're sitting around deciding what to do what are we going to do are we going to how many branches are we going to close how many systems are we going to get rid of what system you're going to put in and if they if they move quickly they'll be able to respond if they take a long time to decide people like ourselves will come and eat their lunch and i think that's what's going to happen what about this problem of transition though i mean the in a way that's the the problem that all the big banks have faced that the transition from one system to another means that you're going to lose 20 of your accounts and piss off at least 80 percent of your clients i mean has any bank anywhere in the world moved from sort of old style legacy systems to a brand new system and done it right okay there are two case studies of people having moved one is both actually moving to sap one is um the commonwealth bound to australia um out in and they did a migration it cost them 1.6 um aussie dollars billion um and uh and that took them six or seven years it's actually done by michael hart who subsequently was hired by barclays to do the to do a similar job for them but never did it and he moved on to um santander and the second big implementation uh was done by nationwide and 1.6 billion sterling and eight seven eight years so these things take a long time and cost a lot of money um but really once you get bigger than that once you get bigger than being a big mutual it's quite difficult to do at all so that size of organization can do these transitions any bigger is very difficult at the moment you've got the bank of ireland doing a big temenos migration and that's costing billions at the top end any organization that's bigger than that they have a huge problem and what are they going to do they probably have the money but don't have the time and the project is too complex so what they're probably going to do is to do a green field proposition a um a speed boat um a flanker brand uh and use that in order to build a new platform which will over time replace the old platform um so yeah it's a huge problem i knew it was a problem i spent my whole career doing it and i was so and post-crisis people have become more risk-averse especially post the tsb situation um you know you can it's it's you have you very very brave to be a board or a cio that presses that button to do the conversion people are pulling away from it anyway i decided it was easier to start a new bank than to fix an old one but of course now you're an incumbent all the time your technology is you know falling behind ai falling behind the latest because you now have a system that is going to be difficult to keep updating aren't you all the bells and whistles will hold you back in the end yeah we did first of all i believe everybody that's successful will have legacy it can't be as big as the big banks and not have legacy so when stalin is as big as barclays i'll be coming on this show and complaining about our lega y systems are we not there yet in the meantime and what we do is to change our systems constantly a little and often today we've already done five releases and how we work is that we work in the same way as the big tech companies do we constantly iterating most banks have software but they have to order the change from the vendor and it goes live every three months constantly iterating and that is why we're at the very very leading edge of this technology and banking revolution but what do you think about the entry of non-banks into the banking system i mean we've heard so for years and years about microsoft and google and amazon and all these effectively these tech companies why don't they come in and bring their technology and they wouldn't have the legacy that all banks have they wouldn't have lots of the issues and they have the client base do you feel that uh this is the time that this will finally happen it's been predicted for 20 years it hasn't happened yet i don't think this is a priority them at the moment um why would you want to start a bank when there are when there's easier ways of of of earning money and revenue in the in the in the big tech world and i think that they have the customer base they have the technology capability i don't think they want the business at the moment but is paypal i mean paypal is effectively a bank i mean you know wechat wechat pay alipay there isn't very much the the line between banks and non-banks and payment organizations is blurring is it not yeah but i think that we the the first blurring was really where the payment service directive won right that was when the e-money license is started and and you know the people like the transferwise is starting whatever um uh you know i think paypal now is 25 years old or something isn't it you know sort of it the these these some of these companies are quite old um and um you had the iteration in mid you know 2006 2007 first iteration of payment services directive one um uh i think that a lot of these lots of things have been done in the uk especially to allow these new companies access to payment schemes but the one advantage that banks have is that they have the liquidity to allow these payment schemes to function and stalin provides a service to non-banks to access faster payments and other payment schemes so um yep um i believe that we need more competition i think that some of these non-banks can provide some of that competition but you also need people with liquidity and access to some of these services to facilitate the whole system a last question from you leighton um yeah i mean i was going to ask about the tech company uh big tech but i you know that you mentioned at the end of your book um the sort of next-gen challenger bank um and i read of uh of of that uh uh elsewhere of that you know having a credit line where you just pay a monthly subscription and they give you what you sort of want seamless payments and a uh savings tool on top that's actually a definition of banking they give you sort of what you want yes so but is that how far away is the perfect neo bank i think things are moving very very fast the um looking back when i started starling now it was 2014. and i said to people i'm quitting my job to start a new bank and this bank is going to have all new technology its own banking license it's going to have a different way of charging people and people are going to love it and most people didn't believe me if i'd said we'd have two million customers that were coming top of all the rankings that which would be naming us the best current account people would say it's an impossible you can't do it and we've done it so there could be other banks coming along other organizations that totally transform things i think things are now possible and we've stirred up the competition there's interesting things happening i'm very excited about the future and i think it could be very different okay in that future if you were starting again if you were starting again if you suddenly woke up one morning and thought screw starling i'm going to do it again what kind of institution would you set up in the financial services sector where is the biggest hole left in the uk financial services ecosystem yeah i think something has to be done around identity i think that we have a situation where um you know stalling is a bank that's a very very successful bank for people like us and it is um but i think there's a whole gap in the market provide real services for you know sort of millions of people around the world that are not like us um i think starling has transformed life for people like us people our customers tell us it's wonderful but we haven't tackled that problem and that's a problem yet to be solved so after you've changed the united kingdom you're going to change the world can i thank you ann bowdan can i thank all of you for watching and many many thanks to starling for improving the quality of financial services in this country many thanks thank you very much for having me