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now good evening everybody you are all incredibly welcome here this evening so on behalf of the little museum of dublin our partners in santorici estate and the unwind fine line fine wine shop bodega 695 you're all incredibly welcome we really do hope that you enjoy this evening's event and make yourselves comfortable so last month we met with some new world wine makers from argentina and chile and today we're going to be visiting the old world so our host tonight is the wonderful john wilson the wine correspondent for the irish times and the author of wilson on wine this evening john is going to be joined with two lead and exceptional winemakers to host a wine tasting and conversation so john's guests this evening are going to be charlotte krajewski who's the technical director of clovis continence in france and carlos delage the queue and the export director within kunai in spain and everyone who's joining us thank you so much for taking the time please sit back relax enjoy your evening and john it's over to you thank you sarah good evening everybody and welcome um thank you for joining us this evening um as sarah said it's brought to us by the vegas ireland's premium wine shop online and santa rita now those of you who joined our last tasting will remember we took a virtual trip down to south america this week our visit is a little closer to home we're going to france and spain two of my favorite places and i'm really itching to get there but we may not be able to visit the countries yet but we can still taste their wines and meet the people behind them so i hope you all have your wines open glasses at the ready and possibly a few nibbles to provide soakage i know you were supplied with a couple of suggested food matches so let us know what you're eating either during the tasting or afterwards when we've finished feel free to ask questions in fact we encourage it comment as we go along chat amongst yourselves use the button q a buttons down below type in a question i know both i and our winemakers will try to answer everything you throw at us winemakers love to hear the public and their opinions so don't hold back give them the good stuff but also any comments criticism you may have um so three very exciting wines to taste this evening two from spain and one from france we have a sarah said carlos delage and charlotte kryesky we'll start off with spain to me one of the most exciting wine countries over the last decade because the country's been on a a journey of rediscovery i called it the old new spain or the new old spain because these are regions and grapes that are new to us but they've been around for centuries and the first one we're going to taste at its heyday back in the 11th century first of all um sadly the 19th and 20th century weren't too kind to it but i'm really looking forward to hearing from carlos about it it's a wonderful region and then we'll go to one of ireland's favorite wine regions rioja and taste one of my favorite wines from there so i'm very excited about it i hope you are let me introduce you to carlos who's going to talk to us about rueda and verdeca and then move us on to riyaka good evening carlos good evening john thanks for introducing myself and well thank you for little museum and santa rita to organize the tasting and well let me introduce you it's first of all the first wine we're gonna taste from spain it's uh it's from the region breda okay it's a brand is well it's um monopole it's the main thing here is you see the ring bottle now it's quite strange to have such a bottle but i wanted to put you all in place know why we have a ring bottle no in spain so monopole brand belongs to a family business it's called kune which i'm probably pretty sure you've heard of of kune from rioja but monopole started the brand monopoly started in rioja uh why speaking where we have monopoly rioja and why we is having this monopole sigo ventino 21st century in uh in reda so the main reason was uh several it's like 15 20 years ago we were seeing in spain that the rioja white rioja sales were slightly declining and rhoda was getting very trendy and to that moment we we decided to say okay well this is red it's extremely well it's very trendy coming through spain so our biggest brand of white wine was monopole and well by the way monopole is the oldest white wine brand registered in spain it was registered in 1915 so it's very strong brand and uh we use the the green bottle and the real bottle was because in rioja when kuna was founded in 1879 we were looking to produce wine like alsace in all those days okay so we come to relax bringing reddit to the trend of spain and i really like what john said about the old new world no that's uh i think that's will explain very well right now realizing this is a region very close to madrid in the center of spain with continental climate and this weather is made from a grave is 100 verdejo okay verdejo it's uh it's a great that could be this old new world with john mentioned before because we've done some a few tasting internally and some people even confuse it with the video as somebody somebody on blank no from new world so this is a wine it's a alcoholic fermentation this takes place in a stainless steel tank we try to have for us extremely important try to avoid oxidation okay so how how do we avoid oxidation we do harvest during the night okay we harvest during the night being in the center of spain that means we have a continental climate so harvest started in 20 2015 for 2019 started the 3rd of september which means that during the day we could have temperatures probably around 25 30 degrees so that could uh oxidize the grape during harvest so we don't at 10 in the morning 10 a.m in the morning we stop we don't do harvest and we start around seven eight on the night and we do machine harvest during the whole night so we have continental climate and we have a temperature around five eight degrees during night so we avoid that oxidation and then during alcoholic fermentation we try to have the temperature and the control at very low temperatures so what we try to gain is trying to preserve all those aromas of uh of the greater and the verdejo grain so speaking about verdejo what what do you should be expecting now what are we looking on uh on a deck of rape for me the most classic uh thing what i get from the verdejo is that tropical noise now that it's not it's like a bit of a herbicide but more tropical not extremely aromatic okay and in the region of of redder this has this is a winer it's not it's not like drastic acidic it has very well balanced acidity and in the region the locals i always say the same like why what about drinking a 2019 vintage no in 2021 the locals they start drinking the 2019 vintage now they always rather to have a widely breaking bottle because they want to have that acidity balance and that's what they're looking so it's a wine that would last in in in bottom for three four years easily so for me i don't see a rush on drinking this wine but carlos i always get if i can interrupt for a second for me it's it's like sauvignon meats another grape variety because you you get those wonderful aromas as you would with the serve in your blanc but then at the same time there's a sort of a richness on the palace that's i don't want to use the word chardonnay because it's not like a chardonnay but it has this lovely pear fruit um that actually makes it it's a great wine for for drinking with a lot of different foods would you say i completely agree and that's why the success of the rita region in spain you have to realize that in spain well i'm sure all of our people seen us many of them have come and visited spain for tourism and what is our way of living you know when we go out with friends we we would normally have tapas no tapas means we're gonna sit down or stand up on a place and we're gonna have five six eight different tapas no at once i don't have six seven eight different type of wine with each tapas so you need you need to find as for example a cleonsano in rioja has very versatile not to match all those kind of food that's why clients are rioja is the biggest category and that's why loretta has is the biggest category in i would say in spain because has the capacity to match those kind of food what what would i drink sorry what i will eat with this one of the most difficult things to match in wine and sometimes it's vegetables i would recommend some kind of vegetables or stew red peppers that will go perfect but personally what i really like is a bit of pasta or even some paella chicken paella or rabbit pilaf that will go very well and what i do at home sometimes is uh that's why i recommend this wine to be drunk at home when you cook at home at least myself i always open a bottle of wine while cooking otherwise why would you be cooking with other bottled water so you need to have a bottle of wine a glass of wine that drinks well you enjoy the wine by itself and then the food comes to the table and you have to be able to keep drinking this wine so that's what you were mentioned john about that mouth feeling no not the white white fruit i can say that style that's gonna end up with very good balance acidity that's gonna help to have your meal with so it's a wine that you can drink it without cooking and then bring it to the table my predecessor in the irish times had this fantastic phrase of an all-purpose wine that you could have it by itself and if you were in a restaurant or somewhere like that with people having different dishes you could drink it with it and i think verdeco fits that and i'm going to try it because i have in the fridge i made some crab salad crab mayonnaise earlier and then i have some chicken with mediterranean vegetables peppers and aubergine so i'm going to try it with the red wines but actually i think it'll go really wet well with the uh the white wine as well completely that is a thing that is like a topic no it's white wine for face and red wine for me but i think we should also beat all of us now everyone has to be a bit more open-minded for example the second one we're going to have is the continuum i love it with code this we have a very classic uh minis code it's a code with uh like with tomato sauce it goes beautiful i'm not the only one having it with crab there's somebody else doing it as well i'm sure you will enjoy it yeah yeah i hope so well i have to say i mean i've been to rueda a couple of times um and compared to the other two places uh we're visiting it's not quite as beautiful but it has fantastic food fantastic beans uh it's it's noted for that and it's a lovely region to go on your way up north from madrid because it's two-hour drive north of of madrid and well worth visiting for the wineries i think no yeah yes it's uh it's one of the places to visit and you can see more and more interesting things going in right now it's you find more well other producers are producing beautiful wines and i always recommend people to to try new things from spain is extremely interesting what's going on and for example you have uh regions like bandaras in the galician country up north people always thinks about the albarino from riya's vikings which is great it's beautiful but straight in england we have about the orbas region which is also beautiful wine so i invite everyone to discover new regions from spain and all these new trends coming through and i find it extremely interesting carlos could you move a little bit closer to the microphone apparently it's hard to hear no problem um okay somebody's saying cold meats hummus cocktails sausages cheese i think perfect with manchego and uh don't forget that one america god's gift to mankind i call it very good um but i don't think you don't find verdeco anywhere outside of rueda really do you well you find a bit in la mancha in south spain but verdejo is not from britain is a category it's normal it's the biggest category of white wine in spain at the moment and i think it's going to keep it's going to stay there it's going to stay there because capacity the style of wine and you said you see it's one of those regions that people ask for by the glass in spain on the tapas bar they go can i have it redder please so it's probably i don't know if i would say it's more strong the redder brand than the vertex grape okay so it's the region they know rather than the grape variety yes even sometimes you find in the white list you find the redder and you don't have what is made from the grapes so well i would say is the biggest brand yes yeah okay okay thank you for that um just going back it was in the 11th century um one of the after the moors were pushed pushed out of the north of spain it was the sherry of spain and was the most popular wine in the royal court verdeco was for centuries um so it has a history going way way back um i think it's a noble wine we should be drinking more of it here in this country we know all about albarino here um so another crab clause on lamb's lettuce there are some very fancy dinners coming on here i'm not sure what i'm waiting at home what i have waiting okay now somebody's asking any advice how i should taste a wine is it any different to drinking away well if my wife were here she will be saying this guy here this gentleman doesn't know how to drink wine he's only tasting wine because one of the things this tasting wine is a very personal thing okay this is to start with personally what i do is and this is i always look at the wine i remember when i started well my mom is a winemaker and she was always saying to me carlos don't put your nose just look at the wine look at the color now the color of the white is going to tell you lots of things of the wine and reds and whites on both but what i always do and that's how i personally i think i don't know if charlotte and yourself are going to agree with me if how to get the most out of the wine i've got to do it it's gonna try to be the most gentle as possible but what i do is when i have the the wine on my palette on my mouth i bring it slightly down down my head and i saw a bit of uh through my mouth so i get the whole expression and the whole flavors in my palette so that's how i personally do it and it's not the right thing to do in a restaurant that's why i get uh yes yeah people tend to gurgle wine tasters tend to gurgle a little bit to let the air into the wine and i a couple of times at dinner parties i've had people looking at me very strangely and then i realize i'm gurgling again so there is no difference all you want to do is get the most out of your wine so and wine is there to be to be drunk and to be enjoyed and to be enjoyed with friends so completely agree and i want to send a message to everyone and i thought that's what i kept saying to my friends and my colleagues it's like we have to drink wine if you want to become an expert that's it's all about drinking and tasting wine it's uh there's no other way you need to taste taste taste and keep tasting and that means keep drinking wine and don't be afraid of don't be afraid of we we are normal person no childhood i think we are normal we are not these knobs and putting your nose and we don't think we don't look over the shoulders we all normal like everyone is listening to us so please drink wine enjoy wine and make it simple make it simple one last question on verdeco it's not the same grape variety as verdejo as grown in portugal and madeira no it's not it's quite it's a bit uh i would say albert comparing with the portuguese us is a bit more romantic and i will say probably that portuguese is more citrus no more lemony so i could go that's probably the main difference we've done the tastings at home internally and they were in the company and we see more aromatics and more floral touch and more fennel okay let us move gently on to your your red wine which we go from rueta which a lot of people may have heard of but not so much to riyaka which everybody in ireland we we consume more rioca per head of population than anywhere else in the world so why do we do this carlos well i think i always say no compino we're drinking we're going to try now continuo reserva 2016 continue well it belongs to cooler family also and i always say the same
well carlos cunha who is number one brand in spain okay so we are a market leader in spain and uh people say oh cool is such a strong brand and i say it's strong brand but the biggest brand we have in our label is rioja no and i keep saying that i keep saying that to the family to our ceo and the biggest brand we have is rioja and you that the average drink lots of rioja please keep doing that don't stop it and well let's go to continue if you've seen a continuous it's uh it's a bit it is for me it's a bit of a issue of my soul no it's uh i've been working for the company for seven years now and continuously is a place that if you have a problem you should go there and you will forgive all the problem it's a bit like a paradise no in the middle of rioja continue with all respect from uh from france and from bordeaux this was we copied them we were the first uh chateau no the first chapter concept in rioja so this is the first single vineyard in rioja we were founded in 1973 and the first vintage was 1974. so during through those days until 1994 yes 1994 we only produced one wine and now we produce several others now with a bit inside of a single vineyard we produce different plots and the one we're drinking now is continuo reserva 2016. continuous means well the is 62 hectares and this is 85 of the production so this is the bread and butter the salt of the of the wine and continue if you look uh if you've seen the label on the top of the of the label we have a saint okay it's saint gregory saint gregory is the saint of agronomist of agriculture in spain and below that is a single vineyard but we we've had this is a bit of story we you were not allowed to put single vineyard in the label until last year more or less with the new this conservo regular legislation because now they are trying to push this side and we're extremely proud to be the first one not to launch this trend about plots and single vineyards and so on so this is a wine that actually i could tell you this is quite a bit of tricky one no this is the one that could be a grand reserva by law this is the one that spends over two years in barrow and then we keep it in bottle um for another year and could you you ex talk to us a little bit about the different style the different gradations of riyaka i mean you have cloven which i happen to be very fond of if it's good you have crianza you have reserva you have grand reserva and then you have all these new kids doing weird stuff but here we tend to drink reserva which i think is quite a smart choice actually yeah um what does it mean reserve a crianza grand reserve well clients have seven grand server the the real meaning is a it is the difference between h in barrow and in bottle okay recovering the comment doesn't need any oak anytime in barrow but you can have it in barrel and put the hover and do whatever you want that's a bit like do whatever you want for the wine or my hovel crianza means a minimum of 12 months in oak okay reserva means from a total of three years okay minimum 12 months in oak on six months in bottle and grand reserva from a total of five years has to be minimum three years in oak well i i always say to people that the difference rioja you get it's ready to drink off the shelf and the difference between that and the wine charlotte's going to try and sell us in a minute is rioja is barrel-aged bottle-aged ready to drink when you buy it off the shelf which is a huge advantage i think yes well that's uh i always save you i invite you everyone to come and visit us in rioja and i said always the same to the people say what is this and they see lots of barrels and lots of bottles because we we keep the wine and waiting for them to be to be drunk and to be age and people say well carlos this is wine this is barrels this is bottles so lots of bottles we have imagine the grand prix server we are selling from continuo 2011 21. and talk to me a little bit about the grape varieties in this well great variety mainly here is tempranillo okay it's a tempranillo and it has a bit of graciano minimum ten percent of graciano gracienes the grape is extremely difficult for anyone that speaks well or knows a bit of spanish gracias it's thank you no so gracias no is no thank you because in the old days it was such a difficult and rustic rape to made a 100 from that people call it gracias no so people used to hide this graffiano with the tempranillo because they couldn't sell it to the winery so the the growers will sell it to the wires or cooperative and they used to hide this graciano and we are very proud of the graciano we were also the first company the first winery to produce i invite you all to also to give it a go to 100 graffiano we produce around three thousand bottles and it's a very very interesting wine that's the glacier also for the blend so this graph this is going to help the wine to live long in bottle so this is a wine if anyone likes to collect wine also keep the wine because it aged beautifully okay it's a wine that is going to age 15 20 years with no problem at all well i have to admit i have some bottles in my cellar of this it's one of my favorite riyakas and you are in can you explain to people riyaka alta ryoka alabasa rioja oriental as we now call it yeah yeah well we can say very easy various ways that like the premium site of rioja mainly you find bush vines okay all cooney grapes are sourced for rioja and continuum is in rioja a single vineyard inside rioja lavesa called bush pines the oldest mines were planted uh 1924 or something like that so extremely old vines and the jagged ones were planted in the late 80s so minimum of the vines is from the late 80s so we're speaking of around 30 30 odd years the youngest ones and then we have rioja oriental what john mentioned and that is where we find the biggest cooperatives we have uh young vines and so on so that's probably we can say it's more volume volume approach when rioja and we have less deals and all the vines somehow okay and i mean we can talk a little what what should fruits should we find in this riyaka i always think with good tempranillo you get nice acidity so it's always fresh so you want another glass another sip sorry and another glass but you get black cherries you get the oak but it's there in the background um but you get this how would would you describe it carlos for me i find lots of fruits for me is my suggestion i said before when you taste the wine always look at the wine this is a reserva and look at mount this has massive amount of colors so this is going to tell you you have lots of fruit okay for reserva wine from rioja for me i get some red fruit okay but i get lots of black fruits also blackberries and and then personally what i really like from this wine and what really gets me in love with this wine is the black the white pepper if you put your nose inside and on your palette you get that white peppery touch that makes the wine extremely elegant and you get the graciano coming through and how the graffiano comes through with a bit at this amount of the press slightly more difficult before putting your nose or tasting the wine think about the balsamic note on top of your mind know before jumping so you think on your mind over the balsamic a bit of eucalyptus and then try and go and find it into the wine and that is what the graciano is going to give that fresh and balsamic attached to the wine which makes it extremely interesting yeah well i i can see how it's so popular here in ireland because it's smooth the oak has taken the edges off it so there are tannins there but it's so easy to drink and i cannot pick up a glass of rioja without thinking of lamb yes lamb chops because chops cordero chew laters yeah anything for me anything on the barbecue without smokiness from the barbecue also you have still also to match that fruit that is sorry oak touch of the wine and i remember when i started working in the company victor ruthia a ceo the fifth generation of cunes he said to me one day when i started say carlos in this company we make wine so an excellent wine for us has must have two things especially has to be easy drinking when we release it you kind of have a difficult time with the wine has too busy drinking that's what you will mention and at the same time must age 15 20 is minimum and that's an excellent wine after easy drinking when you release it and has to be able to age and this is what we find here okay anyone any questions before we move from spain and rioja which is not that far and has long connections with bordeaux before we move up there yeah lots of connections yes you shall teach us how to edge the wine in baron thank you very much okay so shall we move on to charlotte who is in krayowski who's in bordeaux not just bordeaux but santa meal not just santa meal but we have a santa meow grand cru here to taste um again it's one of those wines that irish people love i suspect when i worked in the wine business earlier it was the businessman's wine with santa manio grand cru that's what they wanted because that was it but i happen to know you produce one of the best ones could you introduce us to bordeaux first and then take us to santa maria and then take us to clue cantonake wow uh bordeaux is a huge topic to introduce on our huge region to introduce on its own but um i'm sure many many of not all of you have heard about it and knowed region pretty well either from drinking the wines or having gone there on holidays vacations little trip weekend trips away but bordeaux has a long-standing history with the uk and it was really um the port of bordeaux which made um which was such an easy export route to the uk and one of the reasons why bordeaux wines became so famous and so big so early on that being said the tawarm bordeaux is just completely unique and spectacular as well and the river really divides bordeaux you have the left bank and the right bank of bordeaux and they're very different in terms of climate and soils um terroir um the right bank is um where we are in san juan santa maria on pomerol you have the entrepreneur um but the right bank is sorry the entrepreneurs between the two but um the right bank really is much more clay-based soils and really known for our merlot dominant wines whereas the left bank is much more gravel and slightly warmer and there we have more um cabernet sauvignon cabernet franc based wines um and saint emilion is a beautiful little village um absolutely stunning and it is um it has uh the the hillside and at the very top of the the hills that's where we have some of the best properties sort of coming down with a limestone plateau and then you slowly get down towards the river um the dodoin and that's where you have um some more sandy based soils and clay-based soils along that river bed as well so for such a small region it actually has a very diverse soil portfolio and because of that you make some very in any given vintage you can still have a lot of different uh qualities of wine coming through from it and so we're actually babies sorry does chloe content have a different various soils or are they all of ones we're actually based quite close to uh the river on the lowest slopes of saint-emilion closer to the lee-born side if anybody knows it and um even amongst our we are six hectares in total and we have six different vineyard sites all probably within uh kilometers radius of each other and even within that small change we really can see coming from the river going slightly more inland and slightly towards the plateau of central as well how much the soil really does change so it's um it's a very interesting area to work in so you would be 90 merlot we are we have um some young cabernet franc plantations coming in now um because of the the changing climate we are seeing more and more people planting cabernet franc a little bit of cabernet sauvignon as well on the right bank of bordeaux which has changed a little bit over the last few years of course there are some famous chateau's chevrolet for example which is predominantly cabernet franc but you are seeing more and more cabernet francs starting to emerge on on the right bank but as it stands and this wine is a very good example um we are here we sit at roughly um i think it's 90 merlot 5 cabernet franc and 5 cabernet okay um now the last time i'm not sure that everybody some of the people were at the previous tasting where we tasted a carbonare ah it's a very traditional grape from bordeaux but it's very very difficult to find in bordeaux nowadays um honestly i i couldn't even name um i'm sure i'm sure i could if i really sat down and thought about it but it's it's something that you really don't see very often in bordeaux anymore the three main varieties that people really talk about are merlot cabernet franc and cabernet sauvignon those changing in uh percentage given whereabouts you are located within bordeaux and then um maybe a little bit of malbec and a little bit of pity verdo as well so and and santa meal being further inland would be warmer than the madonna generally speaking um yeah but we have so many little monkey climates you know between uh you look at uh santiamini onto pomerol which is probably what they border each other um and pomerol is significantly warmer than saint-emilion but um yes it is generally generally speaking warmer and slightly drier as well um okay can you talk us through the one yeah so this is um actually um if any of you are not familiar with sorry it's not a very good thing if any of you are not familiar with the property um pity cantonak is actually the second wine of our property um clock antenna being the property in the name of the first wine um for me the 2016 vintage really over delivered and looking at this now it's it's actually um surprising that you can call it a second wine i think it's very big robust round i mean i'm taking carlos's advice as well you look at the color straight away you know it has that deep inky crimson sort of um color to it and beautiful cassis and red cherry on the nose it's still an absolute baby and i'm not sure if any of you had the foresight to um to count this earlier but i think it probably would um i've actually appreciated a little bit more time or give it give it a good swirl while it's in your glass but at the same time um speaking exactly following on from what carlos said it is so important wines nowadays you know the the bordeaux has this tradition that the wines are made to last for so long and of course i want to respect that tradition and a great wine should be able to last for a long time but also people are getting you know impatient we don't have live in the same world that we used to not many people have huge sellers and and store places to store these wines for a long time so for me it's really important especially for a second line that this is a wine that can be drunk young but also appreciated years and years and years well i think if i can say my piece i did open mine earlier i didn't decant it but i think it has this classic bordeaux of the cassis you mentioned this plums which is merlot but what you get is that touch of leather touch of spices and then these very fine tannins so it's a dry wine it's not a wine to glug out on the patio on the summer evening it's a wine food food wine as well yeah definitely yeah yeah i think most of bordeaux um as very well with food and uh talking about everybody what everybody's got in there um or eating right now i'm a bit sad that i don't have carlos's wines with me i was very uh salivating while you guys were talking about those earlier but i've actually got a lamb stew or waiting for me after this which i think will have very nicely with this as well well is one of those things that is bordeaux almost isn't it i mean roast lamb and actually i think with the cabernet touch actually if you're vegetarian with red peppers so i've got red peppers underneath uh my chicken that i think is going to go really well with that cabernet element it will also go well with the rioja element i think i hope but so what would a classic year sitting in the beautiful village and i should say to people we've been i think there's a huge interest in tourism um riyaka is an amazing place to visit if you go to harrow or so
ewhere like that it's brilliant bordeaux i've been in this business a while i remember when it was an awful place to visit it is bordeaux is one of the most wonderful cities and santa meal is a step up i wouldn't go there mid-summer because it's a bit too busy but in spring or autumn amazing place beautiful town i've got to say rather selfishly and probably one of the only few advantages of this last year is that going santomelion this year has been an absolute pleasure and so special of course everything is closed and that we can't stop for a coffee or a glass of wine but to wander around the village without all of the tourists has been the most amazing experience and yeah i feel very privileged for that and how long have you been working in bordeaux charlotte um so the the property is in fact a family property and we purchased this my father's been in bordeaux for a long time and has a long history here but we purchased um chloe canternac in 2007. um before that the old the family who had owned it had had it for hundreds of years but had actually sold the um we're selling the fruit each year but they kept the winery which was a very old shed and that's what we purchased and we kept the name and the original vineyards as well and have slightly expanded since that uh i only finished uh high school at in 2006 but i went to study universe um winemaking in 2007 and then i went off and did my own thing for a long time and traveled around the world and lived in new zealand for six years and my father called me in 2015 saying that the winemaker had left and i needed to come back i wasn't quite ready to be full-time based in france but i came from 2015 to 2018 i came for three months for the harvest each year and then in the end of 2018 i moved here full time okay um can i ask you the question because with santa meal it's particularly um important is what does grown crew mean um it's uh so i'm sure many of you have heard about the 1855 classification that happened in bordeaux and a lot of people refer back to this um it actually means nothing for saint-emilion that classification classification was for the left bank um santa melion has a totally unique classification so you have just the centimeter on wines and then santominion concrete after that you have concrete plus a gunku class a b and gunku class a a and of the a category there's only four b there's a few more um and it sort of trickles down from there and it's all about um everything in bordeaux or france is very restricted but there are different restrictions as to um the quantity of grapes you can take from your vineyard every year the amount of time it has to spend in in barrel in the cellar there's a a lot of different classification regulations that come into it but on top of that um there's the tradition and where you're based it talks about the chateau as well and various different things and every 12 years they actually review the classifications and you may be able to move up very few people actually haven't moved down but there is a little bit of leeway both ways um but there is very little movement that actually happens i think as well so it's quite a political uh i think it's fair try not to go that way but it is very political okay well we're we're going to to move back we're going to um finish up now but with you charlotte i'll go to carlos in a minute you're sitting there with a bottle of your petite cantina you don't have to cook your lamb stew somebody's cooking at your dinner for you what is your perfect match um would you age it the wine for four or five years first and what food would you have with it i mean looking at this wine tonight i think it is tasting beautifully right now but it does need a little bit of air to go or to open it up to decant it an hour or two before drinking it um for me this is still a baby though this will age easily for another five years and probably much longer um and this is why i always advise people to buy a case that way every couple of years you can open a bottle and if it's good you open another one or you leave it so um but for me you know i think of bordeaux um it's it's um a code debuff on the barbecue or um some duck breast uh definitely red meat based um but uh i mean it it's a versatile wine the tannins are quite soft still it's you play with it somebody said why stop at one case of 12. yes we go back to carlos i'm not sure about the technicalities here carlos you are similarly sitting there and it's it's your last meal or your perfect meal um what are you going to have with your cantina reserva personally i'm very simple in business lamb chops barbecue with the leftovers for the pruning from the vineyards that's how we do it in rioja i don't get tired of that i don't get it yeah and uh when you when you go to rioja have a chance with lamb chops please don't do not use fork and knife use your hands hey okay um so we're drawing to a close if you have questions for either of the producers put them in now if you've questions about food and wine matching or tourism i just mentioned going to riyaka riyaka is now a fantastic place to visit do you accept visitors in cuny oh yes of course yes yes we have a whole team dedicated to that we have around i think it's nine ten people working on the visitors team and well we open doors and we welcome everyone and it's uh people say it's always to me the wine tastes better here it's like no it's like you're enjoying your time why not you have in ireland that you have in rio exactly the same and uh but i always say people come over here and it's the best way you know to try to get and learn about wine if it's extremely fun in rioja the living there is about tapas bar tapas restaurants hundreds of wines and to taste and enjoy so please welcome so i think probably what we need to do for the next little museum tasting is fly into bordeaux the airport there we can take a little trip up to santa mion which is only a short way away and then take a train a slow trade down to arrow or somewhere like that in riyaka it's only it's only a couple of hours drive really interesting i think we can see this happening it's easier than the south of america which we were talking about a couple of weeks ago um speaking on behalf of the museum we would um love the opportunity and i see um jackie wrote in saying once we can fly we will come and i think that that's all right quite lovely from our perspective um john if you if you're happy we might do a poll and get some feedback on how everyone's enjoyed the wine this evening yes well we might do can you vote for your favorite wine you can so your options are up on screen now and can they do like an irish single transferable vote here i think it's just a straightforward one choice people voting for a moment i have a question if you don't mind um one of the one of the things that i've loved about getting the opportunity to meet a number of the wine makers in this um tasting over the last couple of weeks and charlotte and carlos sincerely thank you both so much and the passion and the love of your work is so constantly evident and it's such a one it's such a lovely thing to watch and we kind of hear this idea of talking about family wineries and kind of them being family businesses quite a lot as someone who knows very little about the industry is that to do with the labor of love or is that just the way organizations personally i i'm i think it is a labor of love um the everybody who hasn't been in the wine industry has this idea that we we wander through the vineyards in drinking wine and sitting out looking at watching the grapes grow it's actually very hard work and unless you've grown up in the wine industry or with parents to see how hard they are working and seeing the the long hours they put in in the rain and the sun in the in the middle of harvest when you're not getting back into the middle of the night and waking up at the crack of dawn um it's hard to come into that sort of industry as a complete outsider of course i know plenty of people who have but it's a passion i've also seen plenty of people come into the industry thinking it's uh something that it's not and that they're going to sit around drinking wine all day and walking through vineyards um which you do occasionally but it's it's um it has to be a labor of love and i think i'm growing up in that seeing people surrounded by that passion as well and the dedication the long hours they put into it um i think it it's it's a very good starting power point obviously carlos your mother was a wine maker so yeah well mom is a wine maker my grandfather started the business in jerez in cherry south pain but i do my living in rioja so i still i still like what you were charlotte in new zealand i'm around rioja i work in england i grew up with vines i grew up between sherry probably had my first class of sherry probably too early and but i'm a white lover i'm a white glove i don't see myself working know in the car industry or any other industry and i'm extremely lucky and my wife is not lucky at all because i love what i do and i don't i don't care spending hours traveling around the world tasting wine spending lots of my money my pocket money into wine well i love it i love it and i get paid for so thank you i i think the best advice i ever got when i joined the wine trade many years ago was somebody said to me john you'll never earn much money but you will meet the nicest possible people doing it and i think that's absolutely right wherever i go as a journalist you meet these amazing people winemakers who are passionate about what they do but they also have an outlook on life that is more relaxed they love wine they love food they love gardening they love everything to do with with wine so i'm never sad at the choice i made i completely agree and uh well what can we say don't shut a lot we this is our way of living and uh hopefully it's gonna be for like this forever but i want to take a chance to answer a question they were asking how important is the glass that they use for different wines and that will be tremendous i've put on it in tennessee in the company it's extremely interesting use one bottle of wine and x amount of glasses same wine x amount of glasses and you will see how different the wine tastes and the wine the glass of the wine is extremely important and what would you drink your container reserva so we with normally able it's very standard uh bordeaux glass normally very similar i think it's well very normal shape and we have we hope we work with sato with different brands in the company and we also have johnson robinson's glasses we distribute them in spain so good wine has to go with good wine glasses that's uh for sure i would say same have a few very good ones for your special wines because they break easily and they're not inexpensive and i guess um john do you have any concluding questions no i don't think so i think the the glass is very important i think the temperature of the wine which had sent around an email before not too warm 19 degrees really makes these wines i kept them in an unheated room overnight i think we need to do everything we can to make these people's wines taste even better than they are now all i would say we've been to three of my favorite areas this evening so i'm i'm a very happy camper here i'm just dying to find out what's the favorite wine absolutely very happily and katie and philip who are joining us have made a comment that they really wish they could have voted twice thank you to you both and that they'll see you in 2022 and so then it was actually a close tie we've got lots of great enthusiasm this evening so i shall do a grand reveal nice and suspenseful oh but then actually to ask that advice to people who've enjoyed the rayaka this evening in the continent you know is there what else should we be exploring three of you may have opinions i walk into my local supermarket i'm trying that bottle bushes there are other grapes other varieties and well i think always i say to people i see somebody said ribera del duero which is tempranillo as well i i think the biggest piece of advice i would give if is if you walk into your supermarket is don't buy cheap riaka reserva because there is and i won't mention names or anything like that there's a lot of inexpensive rioja reserva and what they do there when you get a really good wine and you put it in oak and age it it smooths it it matures it and you get a wonderful wine when you get a fairly dodgy wine and put it in dodgy oak barrels for a year or two it doesn't get any better it just gets worse and worse and worse so i would say be prepared to pay for a little bit go up to that 15 euro go up to that 20 euro you will be amazed and i know it's hard on people but you will notice the difference the same with bordeaux yeah especially in irish with the taxes of alcohol you have that's fixed it doesn't matter if you pay seven euros or 20 and the amount of taxes is exactly the same so unless you're paying you don't buy a bottle of wine to pay taxes you buy a better one to drink liquid to drink wine so the value you get over seven euros is it's nothing it's receivable you know bat taxes everything so when you go up to 20 euros the amount of value to the liquid that you're going to enjoy by bottle of wine is exponential so if you google it in the internet you see some charts of the value of access wine glass cost of everything and then you need to see the value of the liquid now that you are going to drink and it's actually it's exponential so that's uh i completely agree with you on the 1520 bracket i think that's where you get the good value for money okay that's um that's really fascinating so sincerely this has been this has been really informative really educational but really fun way to spend a bit of time this evening so you know sincerely to the three of you thank you so much for taking the time and what i'm going away with is invest in your wine and buy the case always buy the case it's a life lesson i will take with me going forward and so to everyone who has joined us this evening we will um circulate a link from this evening if you'd like to watch back and go through the tastings again in the days ahead but for now this has been the first time that the little museum has hosted a wine tasting and so to santorita and bodega695 sincerely thank you so much for making it possible john it's been truly wonderful having you hosting us here for the last couple of sessions so to john wilson thank you thank you incredibly much and then our two winemakers this evening thank you both for giving the time and sharing your skills your knowledge and your enthusiasm and charlotte carlos it's really been an absolute pleasure and to all of our guests thank you all so much for taking the time and we will see you in the museum hopefully soon good evening thank you what do you mean thank you really thank you you
