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[Music] hi I'm John burn with poetic wands welcome to another edition of the MBA adventure making it happen with Fortuna Admissions I have with me Caroline DRP Edwards co-founder of Fortuna and a former director of admissions at NC odd we're going to talk about a really interesting topic the four things you need to know to get a killer recommendation letter from a recommender what are they write so well the first point is to start the process right I'm talking about you know at least two or three months ahead of the deadline if not even earlier and you know I can't tell you the number of times when I was in Siena in the admissions office when you know candidates would call in panic two days before the deadline and they've just realized that their recommended is away on vacation and there's no way that the recommendation is coming in by the devil it's way too common and so you know planned out ahead because you don't want to torpedo your entire application because of poor planning and these are busy people right so you need to allow them plenty of time because you're asking them to do something that's above and beyond their day job right they're busy people it's an investment of time and effort so it's something to flake out I've seen that yes yeah and so you should probably be having discussions about this with more than two people if you need two recommendations have three or four options right in case somebody has to you know is not able to do it at the last minute or for whatever reason and then the second point is when you approach your recommender don't just ask them you know would you be willing to write correct write a recommendation for me ask them would you advocate for me big difference right so you know and and how they react to that will give you an indication of whether they are willing to be your champion or you know if or if there's a risk that they might write a more lukewarm recommendation and you know it's really important that you get who is going to be willing to step up and to write a really passionate recommendation that gives some great detail about you know why you are the best candidate who having been on the other side of this reading many of these you know that recommenders often surprise applicants yes and you know I've we've rejected people who you know they look good in every other way but they've obviously completely misunderstood their relationship with a recommender and then recommend a recommender has has you know given no detail or even said quite negative about them I you know I've seen that as well and it's you know it's a disaster for the application so you know it's such a shame off the Canada to put so much time and effort into everything else to have the app that they're the recommender let them down so number three number three is facilitate the process and coach or recommender so you need to sit down with it you need to spend some time with them and brainstorm you know what do they see as your strengths and weaknesses they may have a different perspective from you and also you know jog their memory on what your achievements are on what you've done because they're probably working with many junior associates they it they may not have been working with you in the last year it might be someone that's your former boss and you need to remind them because you know might all be fresh in their mind should you running them or for them it's a good idea to give them some bullet points after you've had that discussion to remind them you know here are the key points that we discussed and you know include also discuss with them your weaknesses because that's something that they will need to address and if they don't address that properly if they sort of you know sketch over the question it looks inauthentic right everybody has some we should write some point of development and so they need to address that head-on as well and then finally I would say you know I see an increasing trend candidates who are being asked by the recommend visits are just right but let's have Bobo right of course because they're busy and it's easier to the candidate can just write it for them and save them all at that time but you really don't want to do that you know I've never seen a good recommendation letter that was written by the candidates the best recommendation letters are written by someone who thinks you are fantastic who wants to help you and that will be much more positive and glowing than anything that a candidate would write about themselves so you know it's never a good idea to write it yourself for ethical reasons as well as you know the file reader is very well-trained at picking up on parallels in style so they'll be able to tell if the same person is written the essays and you know one or two the recommendation letters so you don't have too heavy a hand on the content you need to make sure that you line your recommender up well in advance that they've got the time to work on it themselves and oh thank you yeah absolutely and we take the time to write them a thank-you note and keep them posted with the process because you know you never know when you might need to ask them for a favor again so you know do continue to invest and maintain that relationship Carolyn thank you and so now I know how to get a killer recommendation letter hope you do too this is John Byrne with consequence watch our other episodes of the MBA adventure making it happen with Fortuna Admissions