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well good afternoon my name is jason isaac i'm the director of the life-powered project of the texas public policy foundation we make the connection between human flourishing and access to affordable reliable energy we believe that economic prosperity and environmental leadership go hand in hand and i'm really excited to have this panel that we have lined up for you today to talk about expensive scarce and government controlled or esg another acronym for something else that we're going to talk about energy discrimination i'm really excited by our first speaker today governor mike dunlavy governor from the state of alaska spent nearly two decades in northwest arctic communities working as a teacher principal and superintendent owned an educational consulting firm and worked on a number of educational projects statewide he served on the school board and then two years as board president and then served as a state senator for five years and he earned his teacher certificate and master of education degree from the university of alaska fairbanks governor thank you so much for being with us we'd i'd love for you to tell us a little bit about energy discrimination and how financial institutions are targeting development of energy in alaska and other energy producing states if you would and the floor is yours governor thank you so much for joining us i will and i'll try and cover as much territory as possible because i think it's important i first want to just start out by comparing alaska with texas so you can see where there are similarities but where there are vast differences that are leading to in my opinion this discrimination for example in our ability to develop our resources especially in the arctic but also in other parts of alaska so both alaska and texas are large large states uh they're both endowed with resources a lot of resources they uh they both have a uh uh somewhat of a culture of independence obviously texas was its own republic alaska is so far away so far up here uh that and that we have to deal with so many things with with regard to the natural world earthquakes volcanoes etc that we've developed over time uh uh an independent spirit to a great degree we're uh we're strong second amendment state there's no permit to carry up here we um we we are the only uh state on the pacific ocean for example that votes consistently republican there was only one time in 1964 where this state did not vote republican um it's interesting it's heavily unionized it's about the second or third most unionized state in the country it's a blue collar state uh uh basically and so there are similarities but the differences are for example uh texas came into the union with virtually no no federal land because it was its own republic so a a a culture and a great culture of private land ownership is deep in texas in alaska it's a totally different story we came into the uh we were possessed as a territory uh in a purchase from uh from russia a transaction that took place with russia for our reese this is interesting for our resource potential as well as our geopolitical location um we were used as a resource their storehouse it started with uh fur seals and gold and fish et cetera et cetera timber mining and then uh of course uh since the 50s in cook inlet and then in the 60s and 70s the north slope which was a super giant i mean we were the producer here in north america uh really outside of venezuela the western world outside of mexico venezuela at one time um what's interesting about alaska is this we were not allowed we were not going to be allowed to become part of the union in 1959 unless we collectivized under our constitution all of our resources so in the huge difference in alaska between alaska and texas is the landowner in texas owns the resources as one of my friends in texas said i own everything under my feet to hell and everything above me to heaven in alaska the individual cannot own the resources under their feet that was collectivized in the statehood act uh and through the constitution so it's the state that gets the royalty and it's the state that owns the resource they will lease it why do i say this in light of what we're talking about today because we are compelled to develop our resources if you look at the language in the debate for us to become a state in the late 50s they said we didn't have enough population for a broad-based tax and they were correct so they put us on a course in the collectivization of our resources uh for the state to lead in the development of those resources the fish the gold the oil the timber the rare earths the metals the the strategic metals gas you name it it was to be led by the state we started to do that in the 60s we in the 50s we had an oil discovery in cook inlet we were the first state to set up an export of gas we were the first state in the country to export gas to japan we opened up the concept of exporting in in the night late 1960s we just went back there last fall uh a year ago and celebrated uh the anniversary of that uh uh shipment with tokyo gas um we were heading in the right direction and then the 90s hit as you remember in the 70s and 80s we had we had taps one of the most amazing engineering feeds ever you could see from space it was us and the north sea that came in as a counter to the arab oil embargoes at this time and then the 90s hit and in the 90s what we had was the clinton administration and a a growing movement in the environmental world but also in the um in the anti-development world and it was focused on alaska and alaska is a very interesting situation because everybody in this country believes that they own alaska there are many americans that don't even realize it's a state they believe it's a it's a thing let's say it's a re it's owned by us it's a crown jewel for america and by god we're going to do everything we can to make sure that we don't destroy that particular jewel like we've destroyed our own states and so during the clinton administration things started to be shut down here in the state of alaska tongas which produced tremendous amounts of timber was destroyed by the clinton administration through the role this rule president trump and by the way i'll make this statement president trump has been the best treasure president in the history of this state short states uh history countless things this president and this administration has done they restored the ability to use the tongass national forest and revise the roadless rule the tongass national forest is the largest special force in this country by far we have a smaller timber industry right now than the state of rhode island even though we have one seventh of the country's timber we have the largest national forest then we have the second largest national forest with the chugach national forest because of what has happened with the environmental movement the preservation movement and the no development no growth movement we have a smaller timber industry than the state of rhode island this is what this country we are the canary in the mine this is what this country is going to be facing we just faced it a little earlier greek peace was formed in 1970 in an attempt to stop uh nuclear tests in alaska so you can see how alaska is played into this environmental movement but again the irony is our charge by statehood acting constitution is we must develop our resources we are the one state that is compelled and had our resources collectivized so you can see the uh the issue that we're dealing with on the one hand we come into the union and we're forced to collectivize and force and develop our resources fine for let's develop our resources but on the other hand now we're fighting the federal government and we will be fighting the federal government and happened because they want us to stop producing our resources they want us to stop exploring now we have this new phenomenon of financial institutions that have now decided through their shareholders that the culture is changing whatever that many of them are going to disengage from fossil fuel uh investment we have a number of oil giants that are sending out signals that they are going to start to disengage from fossil fuel investment exploration development shipment etc and they've decided to make alaska the target they've decided to make the arctic the target now alaska just like texas nevada other states that are rich in resources we not only provide jobs and opportunities when we develop our resources and in alaska's case we don't have a state income tax we got rid of that 81. we don't even have a state sales tax we've relied on our natural resources just as the framers of the constitution and the feds said at that point that we needed to we took that to heart we developed the north slope crude obey capart we've maximized our cooked inlet cook inlet reserves as well we continue to explore uh going west into the naval petroleum reserve we we've been working for decades to open up the coastal plain and anwar which is some considered to be the last best hope for a giant of some size so 15 years ago when we were talking about getting the uh getting anwr opened up we had envisioned and had discussions about how many companies would come to bid on those leases well as a result of this new culture this new approach to disengaging from the arctic and disengaging from alaska the only bidders last a week and a half ago was a state corporation called ada and two small companies bid uh on in a bid on nine tracks the two small companies bid on 11 tracks this is in the largest potential oil prospect supposedly in north america so you can see how effective these groups these individuals have been at basically cowing people into not uh not considering this as an investment so what we have going on and it started here a long time ago but it's coming to a development of prospect near you is this idea that we're going to cancel everything cancel those that are are are for resource development cancel the projects cancel the investment source we had two weeks ago several senators that sent letters to the national insurance agencies and other groups saying that we we do not want you investing in alaska in the arctic so essentially what we have going on here is an attempt to destroy a state within the federal system to turn it into nothing more than a a national park i was just in a conversation yesterday with our indepak people in the state of alaska state of alaska has the largest native american population of any state in the country 15 percent of our population is named alaska my wife of 32 years is an eskimo lady from a remote village on a remote river in the 70s alaska when we settled this uh alaska native claims settlement act we didn't develop reservations as you have in the lower 48. we only have one small reservation in southeast alaska the rest of the state through the ancsa law developed corporations arctic slope regional corporation multi-billion dollar operation now the uh northwest native uh arctic association the nana's corporation large mining prospect at the red dog mine led sea and subsequently uh several more corporations were developed in an effort to develop their lands so that they would not become caught in a trap like in your tribal systems and your reservation systems they wanted to give these people an opportunity so it was on the phone yesterday we were talking about the oil this is the corporation that's up on the slope and there we're going to be fighting these issues uh arm and arm because the idea that we're going to send alaska back into the stone age doesn't resonate well with many of our alaskan folks and alaska nato folks who want responsible development and so you've got goldman sachs you've got wells fargo you've got others who have their own issues if you read the paper in terms of being fined for activities that they've conducted internationally and here in the country saying they're not going to invest in alaska and what i would leave you folks with is this if they can do it here they can even accomplish this in texas it may take them time it may take them money it may take them a lot of resources but this is a committed movement that almost uh resembles a religious uh research and if we don't work together uh if we don't band together what we're going to end up with is as was mentioned in the intro very expensive energy that is going to impact the poorest of the poor the other thing i would say is this many of these projects that we're talking about and we're getting our mining uh we're getting our mining place canceled whether it's pebble mine for example pebble mine is on state land and the army corps of engineers decided to yank a permit before there's even the permit and study process completed because of politics so with that said we've got a lot of work ahead of us we're behind the curve this stuff started many many years ago we saw it over our shoulders we heard about it here and there i don't think we took it seriously that allowed these groups in this movement and this mindset to gain some momentum and lo and behold we wake up on november 3rd and then january 6th and it's a whole new world and so uh with that i mean i could go on and on and i'd be more than happy to answer questions uh and throughout this uh throughout this conference but um we took matters into our own hands with anwr we state corporation bought those leases so we have an opportunity to develop those releases for alaska that oil if there is oil there would be produced and put into the taps pipeline along with oil from uh prudow and kapark up in the north slope but we have an obligation this is a this isn't an afterthought we are compelled by our constitution and our history to develop our resources and these groups are trying to stop it we let goldman sachs know and we let others know we will be developing legislation to remove them from making a profit in the state of alaska we are not going to join with anybody that is that cross crossways with our uh our compelling constitutional and statehood arguments for development that would be crazy and we've already had those conversations that we'll be working through that legislation to do the best we can to disassociate ourselves with anybody and everyone these groups are declaring war on the state of alaska and i know this is language that in the last couple days some folks with this caution has been using but i don't know how i'll let you worry this is what's occurring and we're going to fight it so with that right i'll stop um it's uh it's a it's a it's a wake-up call it's um um we're gonna have to come up with some different ways to finance some of these projects but if these folks win in the end cheap energy in the form of fossil fuels will be uh will be uh will be in the history books that's exactly right and um we'll be looking at uh we'll be looking at a future that uh may end up being more costly well thank you governor thank you for the opportunity to open up and speak yep appreciate your leadership on the issue certainly we're we're looking at model legislation similar here in texas we've seen stuff filed in indiana and governor mark gordon in wyoming when he was a treasurer did the same thing with bank of the west and remove millions of dollars out of their accounts hopefully texas will follow suit and do the same uh but but let's go ahead and get started with our panel conversation i want to introduce on my far left if maybe you're far right for those of you here live in the audience uh rupert darwil freshman from london it was supposed to be senator charles perry from lubbock the accent's a little different between rupert and charles but you know senator perry is actually in section on the floor right now we appreciate his leadership on this issue we've been talking for over a year on this uh working with lieutenant governor staff but they're in session and so what do we do we send a private jet out and pick up rupert from london this morning flying no we didn't do that he just happened to be in austin and probably somebody that i would consider the most published person on this particular topic in the world just happens to be here and so rupert darwal thank you so much your graduate of cambridge univers ty investment former investment banker with at swiss bank corporation before becoming a special advisor to the chancellor of the exchequer at the uk treasury in 1993 you went on to co-found one of london's leading think tanks you were a consultant to the conservative party during the 2005 general election um and as i mentioned one of the most published authors on the subject the author the age of global warming a history in 2013 and then green tyranny exposing the totalitarian roots of the climate industrial complex which was published in 2017 and we did a a primer on that to my immediate left you're right chris wright here in the middle just an enthusiastic and charismatic speaker on the subject travels the world and is going to be add a lot to this panel he serves as a ceo and chairman of the board of liberty oil field services also founded and served as executive chairman of liberty resources of bakken focus exploration production company and liberty midstream solutions he has spoken on energy at the uk house of lords the state's attorney's general federal and state's judges and given over a hundred talks he completed his undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering at mit and graduate work in electrical engineering at uc berkeley and mit founded pinnacle technologies and from 1992 to 2006 served as the ceo he's currently on the board of directors for urban solutions group u.s ceramics and the federal reserve bank denver branch so welcome rupert chris governor thank you so much let's get this conversation started chris i know the governor was talking about some of the things that you're passionate about but really how is this energy discrimination impacted your business or people that you may compete with does it not just hurt your bottom line but the livelihood of your employees tell us about some of the impacts of this energy discrimination yeah i'll hit two real quick you know one we're a public company now and we have a term debt that's going to come due next fall so we've got 18 or 19 months and banks in this group independent of how our financials are want to pull out they want to apply less credit to the energy industry and a number of them just want to leave now part of that's because our industry has had a very rough patch financially i get that part but it's more than that there are banks that just want to exit it's independent of credit conditions they're going to leave this sector we're a strong company we have a good position you know we're going to get through that it'll increase our cost of capital but think of smaller companies or companies that are on the edge that are struggling a little bit through these tough times a lot of those companies are going to be tipped over and disappear because of this this positioning of the banks um a little bit more about about the second one right so we employ about 3 000 people today and think of like we've got an awesome gal who's an attorney in our company hard driving super successful we've got a fantastic finance and accounting team we have a supply chain team that i think could teach dell or apple a thing or two but none of those people are oil and gas people right they're just business professionals that have chosen to go work in our industry how long are those people going to stay their neighbors go home and they they don't look evil but they must be some of them that live in the city don't tell their neighbors what they do and what industry they work in you know that's just crazy i mean it is discordant with reality so we do a lot in our company to talk about our industry our mission our passion and why it matters and it's not only not bad it's actually noble and empowering for the world a couple quick things there number one one of the things i say about our industry is we're the industry that no other modern industry could exist without no industry that you recognize today would be like it was without our industry to go broader back in that when the oil and gas industry started about 150 years ago since then human life expectancy has doubled with barely moving throughout all of human history people live twice as long today enabled by the advent of our industry um and so since i was born like when i was a kid i went to college to work on fusion energy because we were running out of oil and gas i graduate school i worked in solar energy and geothermal after i wasn't an oil and gas guy by any stretch i'm in the oil and gas industry because it's what runs the world and as far as i can see it's what will run the world last number on that so oil and gas and coal hydrocarbons provide a little more than 80 percent of total world energy today roughly the same amount when i was born almost no trend between then if you look just at the oil and gas sector last year uh highest market share ever in where united states got energy right highest market share ever last year um and if you think of we provide 80 some percent of global energy the other 17 or 18 percent none of it possible without oil and gas there's a hundred tons of coal inside every wind turbine right that's what steel is it's iron and carbon put into it by burning natural gas at very high temperature wind turbine blades are made out of oil solar hydro you know hydro hydropower nuclear geothermal that i've worked on all these other things that provide say 17 18 of global energy impossible without oil and gas so i don't care where energy comes from but it has to power our society and give people opportunity and people in our industry need to believe in that they work in a noble industry we'll talk in a second about poverty that's my single biggest passion about what why what we do matters and as the governor said why the cost and quantity and availability of what we do impacts people's lives particularly low-income people thanks chris so much well i think with the governor's comments about trump being the best president for alaska since the creation of the state and your comments about wind and solar not being possible without coal and oil and gas i think all the leftist heads have exposed have exploded and there aren't the keep it in the ground movement people on the on the on the zoom anymore but rupert let's talk about during the obama administration the threat to our energy industries came from the epa in regulation in other words the administrative state now we're seeing huge investors such as blackrock let me let me emphasize here for a second blackrock in 2017 owned at least a five percent stake in over 90 percent of the companies traded in the s p 500 at least a five percent stake they're worth 7.3 or they manage 7.3 trillion dollars that would be the third largest gp gdp in the world so investors such as blackrock regulating corporations through esg could you give us your perspective on this rupert uh yeah sure uh jason it's it's great to be joining you it's great to be here i think we're seeing the most determined assault on american capitalism that there's been since since the 1930s but what makes this particularly threatening is and dangerous is is where the assault is coming from and it's not the usual suspects it's in addition to the usual suspects i should say it's not just from left left politicians or the bureaucrats of the administrative state back in the 1940s the economist joseph schumpeter described the public tr publicly traded corporation as capitalism's vulnerable fortresses and who is attacking these vulnerable fortresses well it's an inside job mounted uh from wall street um it's insiders such as mike bloomberg and blackrock's larry fink and these people don't go to bed at night worried about income inequality or the hollowing out of the blue collar economy but the environment for them is a different matter god might be dead but the planet needs to be saved during the obama administration we saw we saw an at the administrative state in the form of the epa attempt to decarbonize uh america's electrical power grid an attempt that was actually struck down or stayed by the supreme court but now we have esg we have the big three index fund providers led by blackrock we have mike bloomberg's sustainability accounting standards board blackrock is pushing esg as part of its marketing pitch to millennials who put improving society ahead of generating profits much of the buy side pressure for esg comes from state and municipal pension funds playing politics with pensioners and taxpayers money esg is simply put is politics continued by other means especially climate policy and energy policy we hear a lot about climate risk disclosure so here are some quotes about what's underlying this quote the capital markets can affect the course of climate change for the better former treasury secretaries hank paulson and robert rubin write in the forge of the sustainability accounting standards board paper on climate risk quote the goal cannot be transparency for transparency's sake disclosure should be means to achieving a more sustainable and inclusive capitalism says blackrock's larry fink climate change is the biggest threat to america in the world full stop mike bloomberg said in february last year just as the covid pandemic was about to strike the world how do you replace dirty energy here's stop rewarding companies from making it the intent is crystal clear this is not about investment and it's not really about inclusive capitalism because really this is the very definition of exclusive capitalism where a handful of wall street billionaires end up taking political decisions on behalf of the whole of society the idea of esg underpinning a parallel government with its capital on wall street has been articulated by matt levine a lawyer and former gold sacs goldman sachs investment banker who writes a lot for for bloomberg opinion quote there is a government of the u.s consisting of a president and congress and so forth chosen through more or less democratic processes and it makes big collective decisions for society and there is a second government consisting of a handful of gigantic institutional asset managers blackrock vanguard fidelity etc blackrock makes decisions on broad social and environmental issues he says and then companies are somewhat compelled to do what blackrock decides don't you just love the somewhat like the offer that you can't refuse there is a host of problems regulating companies via esg not least it puts american companies at a huge competitive disadvantage compared to those operating in countries or from countries where climate targets are weak or non-existent but the two most important i think are first the lack of democratic legitimacy and the second is on capitalism itself its ability to drive growth and rising prosperity turning corporations into public sector bureaucracies will see them delivering public sector outputs it's an immensely destructive double whammy so i think i hope this have helped frame the issue for it's not just it's not just about turning off the capital to oil and gas companies it's about fundamentally remodeling american society great answer governor if you're still on i'd love to hear about some of the economic impacts to those you know economically disadvantaged communities in alaska that this discrimination by financial institutions would how would that affect those communities and and maybe some insight on some of the new projects that have recently been approved i think you partnered with the blm on some new pebble mines that will help communities tell us a little bit about some of the economic impacts in alaska thank you so the interesting thing about a lot of these resource development projects is they're located in the poorest places of our state in other words by developing these projects you don't just get well this this is not about what some of these groups will tell you this is about corporate whatever corporate uh destruction of uh the environment et cetera in alaska these these plays whether it's pebble mine whether it's anwar uh whether it's the top uh whether it's the chinese in southeast alaska but mainly up in the northern part of the state of alaska in the western part of the state of alaska these fines are placed conveniently near some of the poorest places there are in the state of west so i'll give you an example the led zinc mine up in the northwest arctic part of the state of alaska north of a place called kotzebue one of the largest led zinc mines in the world employs at least 56 if not a little more native alaskans from that region so in essence what it's helped do is lift those people out of poverty generational poverty and given them an opportunity to be able to partake in the world that the rest of us have taken for granted on the north slope where capac is crude obey is uh anwar is within anwar the confines of anwar is an inupak eskimo community called paktobe that lived there forever they are huge proponents of onshore oil and gas development they benefit directly from that my wife who's in your pack eskimo uh and talking to her mother before she passed away there was a question raised mom um what was it like in the good old days and her response was they weren't good old days and she lit she she uh she talked about a whole litany of unbelievable adversity that they had to deal with just to survive well the development of these plagues the development of these fines create jobs that are often a hundred thousand dollar plus jobs for workers that in any other situation without a college degree you'd be you'd be paid nine bucks an hour and so you not only help the poorest of the poor when you're exploring you not only help the poorest of the poor if you develop and you hire these people you change the culture of poverty and in many cases you're producing the very fuel in our case in alaska the minerals needed for batteries for electrical storage and electronic parts you're producing this at a in a uh in a manner that's environmentally friendly but you're producing this so that you can uh get affordable product in the case of energy that generates cheaper electricity abundant electricity and in the case in mining that develops cheaper gadgets cheaper electronics cheaper storage as well so this is going to this is going to this is this is a this is a a destructive event across across the globe uh but it's it's starting here in alaska but any event uh not to belabor this uh in alaska oftentimes these potential projects are sitting right next to some of the poorest people in this country and in the state of alaska excellent thank you chris let's talk about some of your experience traveling around the world and how expensive energy hurts the poor and let's talk about the energy poverty and poverty aspect you bet um yeah my brother and i we were young wanted to climb mountains and travel the world i've been to over 50 countries you know and i get to me the biggest appeal really is to see the people and see it's almost like a time machine it's to see how our society was before to see different cultures and different histories um but what they all said out look the debate about esg and as a look i'm a board member of environmental group i'm socially passionate about what we do so it isn't like i don't like the idea of esg it's the way it's done and the way it's talked about and mostly of course it's a dialogue of wealthy people from wealthy countries among wealthy people in wealthy countries you know it's a tiny sliver of the world that that argues and preens back and forth and usually quite a naive segment of that population so what's the state of the world today a third of humanity a third still uses for cooking fuel the same thing all of our ancestors did which is to burn wood dung or agricultural waste indoors um we yeah it's quaint to have a fireplace at my house sometimes it's not quaint if that's the way you cook your food and that's the way you stay warm i've spent a number of times in these huts they're very smoky they're very unsafe and women who do the most of the work in traditional societies spend over an hour a day gathering wood dung and agricultural waste every day to cook food well why do you have to cook it well to for humans to liberate calories from the grains we grow their complex carbohydrates we have a smaller digestive system we can't iberate that energy without breaking them down by cooking this is essential this by world health organizations estimates kills over 3 million people a year every year every year twice the global deaths from kovid last year every single year right but that's a poor person problem so it isn't even talked about easily fixable outdoor air pollution kills another two or three million people lack of access to water uh illiteracy basic medicine all of them not possible without access to low-cost energy we have way more than 10 million lives easily could be saved every year with expanded energy access and we're moving there we're moving there these numbers were dramatically worse 20 years ago but now there's actually headwinds so i was in tanzania with my family a year and a half ago we had a fabulous trip met a bunch of people that we're still in touch with and believe me the economic upbringing the shocks of covet are are are much worse there than they are here in tanzania 85 of the population uses traditional fuels only 15 have modern indoor clean cooking fuels but because the shale revolution surging think propane propane production from the united states has been a godsend that is the thing when you leave wood and dung and agriculture waste behind and you get your next step it's what we would think of think of the coleman cooking stoves you saw when you were a kid and a propane canister that is game changing game changing for people's lives there are six companies in tanzania now that are actively competing to get these stoves out there to sell the canisters when somebody breezes that economic threshold and they can switch to that education in that household health in that household the future in that household just changed um that's an economic consideration when can they buy lpg instead of spend over an hour to search for wood um yet you know the world health organ i mean the world bank in 2010 stopped lending to for hydrocarbons in poor countries a bunch of commercial banks are doing it usaid we're now in an active effort to slow people that live the way our ancestors lived and want to live like we live and we're stopping them we're getting in the way and trying to hurt it it's just it's beyond reprehensible um it's uh sheikh hasina prime minister of bangladesh was at a davos conference and al gore wagged his finger at her and said she shouldn't be building these coal plants right a huge amount of bank people in bangladesh don't have electricity imagine walking home tonight no electricity we're in the wintertime no lights no ability to charge anything what are you gonna watch tv right people there's still a billion people with no access to electricity a billion with only very intermittent and low enough level electricity doesn't help raise their incomes right that is by far and away the biggest world global energy challenge climate change is the other one but it's massively slower moving and massively smaller massively smaller but people don't look at the data and they won't speak honestly about that last thing last thing i'll say so the intergovernmental panel on climate change the ipcc right the authority the u.n bureaucracy set up to study this they do economic studies too to try to estimate impacts um and they publish them have you ever read about them do you ever see them in the press well there's a reason you don't um so the ipcc uh assessment report five the last one fully out six is trickling out right now in assessment report five they estimated what is the economic impact of two degrees c from pre-industrial times warming so we're warming right now at 0.14 degrees c a decade if you extrapolate that sometime around the end of this century 70 80 years from now we'll hit 2 degrees c from pre-industrial times the intergovernmental panel on climate change estimates that will reduce personal income wide range it's a projection about the future somewhere between zero point two percent and two percent so the middle of that significantly less than the economic loss of one recession so if over the next 80 years we have one extra recession that we might have otherwise had that's about the impact of climate change on people's uh well-being this century from the ipcc yet a third of humanity you know dying millions a year with huge health problems lack of education and time lack of electricity that's okay that's that's not okay that's we're writing uh ea well we're not calling it esg it is our esg report we're gonna publish our first report and it's called human flourishing and sustainability we're going to lay out what's actually happening with energy poverty what could move the needle what drives us which is to get energy to the third of humanity that don't have lives like us and and this is not just a poor country problem um uh jason really quick here i lived in california for 19 years right silicon valley hollywood aerospace industry the most awesome real estate in the world right this is an incredibly wealthy state california didn't squeak by they screamed by mississippi alabama and louisiana as the the highest adjusted poverty rate in the nation um how do they do that they did a lot of they don't believe in they're moving towards top down the way the world always worked but one of the killer things there is the price of energy right they've all they're they're supposedly saving the environment by redoing where they get energy from right so their electricity prices are 50 percent higher than the country as a whole their commercial electricity prices are 80 percent higher so if you're low income your price tag fill your gas tank and heat your home and cook your food that's a meaningful part of your income for low-income people further blue-collar people work in energy-intensive jobs you know if you're a trucker or a farmer or energy-intensive manufacturing those are high-paying blue-collar jobs they've left california so we've left the jobs put the burden on them and they don't even talk about this now politicians are rebelling in california or starting it but that happened the 19 years i lived there continued to drive up the price of energy and for what for what california's percent of energy from fossil fuels total all-in fossil fuel energy today slightly higher than the national average all of that germany my last example germany has invested 340 billion dollars over the last decade scale that up to the size of the u.s economy one and a half trillion dollars and in 19 in 2010 they got 80 percent of their energy from fossil fuels what do you think they get today 80 went to 79 right they have triple u.s electricity prices and tens of thousands of premature deaths because low-income elderly people don't don't cool their homes to safe temperatures wasn't taught in the summer and they don't heat them to warm temperatures this is not a rational evaluation of trade-offs for the environment for taking care of people that's great chris thank you so much expensive energy hurts the poor whether they're poor in africa and developing countries or they're poor here in the united states or or eastern european countries that you would think would not uh have suffering like they do but unfortunately we do and that expensive energy certainly does hurt the poor i love you talking about the ipcc uh our dr brent bennett has run the numbers and if we eliminate all of the co2 emissions from the united states by 2030 as called through in the green new deal by 2100 the temperature differential is less than two tenths of a degree that's eliminating all and that's using the same model that the un uses with the ipcc it's it's all for naught it like you talked about climate is changing it absolutely it's mild and manageable and we are world leaders in environmental protection so i'm glad you brought up some of those the other part about empowering women that you touched touched on a little bit about walking to collect the biomass katie chihuahua our communications manager is a great piece on our website lifepower.org if you really want to empower women get them access to electricity women around the world spend 200 million hours a day walking to collect water imagine that if we could then open up opportunities get them access to electricity think of the civic opportunities opportunity to start new businesses opportunities to get an education and katie wrote a great piece on that i highly encourage you to go and read that and please media cite that all you wish dar rupert let's talk a little bit about retirees and their and their money that's being directed away from these investments how is it going to impact them well esg i mean the the strap line of esg is doing well by doing good but when you actually look at at what actually happens if you look at the data it's not quite it's not quite as simple as that and it's obviously counter-intuitive to believe that if you eliminate uh two uh four-fifths of the stocks from uh from a from an index to get a socially an esg fund and you eliminate not just energy companies but defense contractors companies producing gmos and so forth you shrink your portfolio you slapper the esg label on it and you charge investors five times as much it's hardly surprising that your returns will be hit and there's a very interesting thing that calpers the the californian pension state pension fund it decided to divest in in about 2000 to divest from tobacco on ethical grounds and uh its consultants reckoned that that cost the fund about three billion dollars so it's not just it's not just that esg is bad for it's bad for for for business it's also bad for investors wonderful thank you very much before we open it up to q a we'll get our microphones ready i think mckenzie will have those in the back last question for the governor from me before we open up to our audience panel governor we heard this morning from the texas lieutenant governor dan patrick referencing an anti-bds bill that was passed in 2017 in the state of texas that said that if you were boycotting divesting or sanctioning the state of israel then you are no longer welcome to do business with the state of texas and and he is proposing and says that he will have priority legislation this texas legislative session that says that if you're boycotting divesting or sanctioning oil and gas then you're no longer going to be welcome to do business with the state of texas tell us a little bit about what what you think a proposal would be or any other ideas that you might be that might have to push back against some of this energy discrimination by financial institutions we're looking at everything from policy to legislation we are looking at everything uh from uh legislation and resolutions we are we we've we've taken them seriously we're going to answer the call and we are not going to go quietly in the night we are going to stand up in any form possible uh to fight back on this we will have to we'll be having conversations with uh texas and places like wyoming and north dakota and south dakota and others like mine and states um to join forces potentially in a resource defense action if necessary against some of these outfits as well as potential agencies in this new administration because for us this is we we are the least diversified economy in the country and as i mentioned on the historical background we need resource development so we're in a fight we're going to use every tool we possibly can we'll be working with folks uh such as uh your folks in texas as well as other states but we're turning over every stone possible right now we're looking at uh we're looking at uh administrative orders as well as uh introducing legislation excellent we look forward to working with you mackenzie you've got the microphones i believe any questions roger keats back here in the in the middle in the back yes thanks yeah first to comment back we used to be a little bit in the energy industry and i always used to say the environmental movement is the most racist political movement in america and in the whole world because you look at by and large the people who are suffering from lack of energy and how it holds on the economy are minorities whether it's africa asia or whatever and right now racism is a lot hotter term than poverty so it might be better to refer to us as the racist industry but come in in a quick store we've got kids who live in barcelona spain the old section it's really nice almost no one has air conditioning now anyone who's been to barcelona summer knows their weather's just like austin's during the summer and virtually no one can afford air conditioning because their power is so expensive now to come to my actual question i just want to make those mistakes questions under the 10th amendment we know that under we're out in washington now they are going to try to damage our energy industry under the 10th amendment i'd love to have a state sometime and just say when the feds come and just say up yours get out and whether it's alaska who could i think could get away with it easier although alaska texas somebody has to take a stand and say no because you read the constitution they're way past that where can we apply the 10th amendment could we try it in texas and would anybody have the nerve to take on the bureaucracy and just tell them to get lost i think we have some attorneys at the texas public policy foundation our litigation team with the center for the american future that are looking to do just that there might be some announcements next week on that particular issue but we're fortunate here in texas as the governor from alaska mentioned we most of the land is privately owned there's not a lot of federal land in the state of texas and that's probably our biggest benefit governor did you have any comments on that from from alaska and standpoint yeah we would we we've uh we've been fighting the uh the feds for some time ever since we came into the uh uh into the 90s especially but um i i think we all seriously have to have a conversation about coming up with a uh some type of state resource alliance because again what they're going to try and do is uh they're going to try and convince you guys that alaska is a special situation that that you know we're we're not interested in south dakota or north dakota or texas we're just trying to protect alaska but you know how these things go once that happens once once there's a success there and this state ceases to be a state goes into receivership uh under the feds and becomes a big park um they're going to find something beautiful about texas that uh texans are really doing wrong and that they need to be uh they need to be re-educated as to as to how to do things the right way so i don't think we wait any longer to be perfectly honest with you i think we um and i i've begun those conversations for example with uh our governor's association and we'll we'll expedite those conversations but it's it's it's clear to us and all i'm saying to you guys is this we are the canary in the mind and we've been in the canary area of the mine for some time what would have been major oil companies tripping over themselves to get leases in anwar there were none that's what you're facing any other questions like mckenzie to your left uh so my question is for the whole panel but so for the energy uh narrative that's been going on a lot of the public opinion has fallen away from uh fossil fuels but i mean as we're listening here the human flourishing moral argument the economic argument so far it doesn't change the mind of a green believer hit him over the head with the reality they think they could negotiate with it so i'm kind of curious what the next step in presenting an argument for um better energy that i mean it helps people economically helps people with human flourishing how do we better wrap that argument i mean i'll say from my perspective yeah i used to do i've been speaking on climate change for 15 18 years it was a business line at my original technology company to measure co2 sequestration now they call carbon capture and underground storage so hey it was a business opportunity for me so i would speak about the science and the feedbacks and i still do that but i think to reach the younger audience i speak in high schools and universities and all that um to me i i speak about poverty and human opportunity and what it means you know what why why did we rise up and live longer or whatever and what about these people that don't and then you know walk through sort of the trade-offs with what we're doing with climate change and what that means look i think the younger generation today they're very passionate my company they want to make the world a better place they're just simply the most economically secure generation that's ever been born right so they're less worried as we were about getting up and making sure we had a future and they want to be part of a mission to be part of a cause i think it's mostly among the young people mostly naivete they just don't know they think the planet is really going to hell and that's what's the threat to people and i mean that's all they've heard how would they not know that but i get remarkably positive reactions i spoke at cu boulder you know in a debate with the mayor of boulder and two professors about oil and gas and i had a giant line at the end you know of people that you said i had no idea i didn't realize it so i think it's a long game but and obviously life powered at tpp is doing that it's how do we reach younger people who in turn will ultimately influence politicians i think we win in the end but it is a generational battle and you'll see in california you know the black and hispanic delegations in the state house in california are becoming increasingly outspoken who are the victims of this california policy it is low-income people it's job opportunity so i i'm always an optimist but it is a long-term battle but we have to change people's hearts and minds and you're right economics doesn't do it but justice and poverty and people's opportunity i think does i hope and those seem to be the largest movers of polls if you talk about people that change their mind from being anti fossil fuels or anti-hydrocarbons you talk about energy poverty and you talk about women walking 200 million hours a day get them access to energy you lift them out of poverty that moves people here in the united states and that's really what our messaging is geared around we talk about we're a world leader in environmental quality i talk about economic prosperity environmental quality go hand in hand uh i've i've advocated and will continue to advocate to members of congress in the current administration and the next administration that we shouldn't have a paris accord we should have a pittsburgh accord and we should look at the air quality improvements that we've made in the united states in the last 50 years we've reduced harmful pollution 77 percent that's and it's gone down seven percent in this current administration people thought oh it's going to get horrible it didn't it continues to prove and it's american leadership american innovation and the market that has done that it's not regulation it was the market that started that and so we should be calling our trading partners to meet our air quality standards for harmful pollution you look at in los angeles 65 percent of the ozone in in southern california is asian air pollution so we export jobs we import pollution we've got cheap energy here in the us let's reshore those jobs let's in manufacture goods with our environmental leadership and improve global air quality but that's what we should be calling on our trading partners to do is meet our air quality standards around the world and those two are the measures that move people the most poverty and air quality and we talk about our leadership here in the united states a lot within the life-powered project tyler tyler's written some great pieces tyler quarter check him out he's written some great op-eds that have been published around the country i highly encourage you to go read some of his work thanks jason so for esg i'm in the energy industry as well and i think the focus is always like you've mentioned on environment uh the eeps but and now you've laid out an excellent case for how and tpp has done the same thing on the sp social but i haven't heard a lot about governance um you have these large energy companies or companies in general who are cow towing to these financial groups or they're just not seeing they seem not to respond well to pressure they feel like they're not governing or managing these risks climate change etc they don't really know how to manage and so from a millennial perspective it seems not i wouldn't say incompetence of management but no one knows really what to do so the question is what is the fix what are we seeing you know at the state level the private level people responding in a way to face the financial sector i mean governance for for the investor world in our industry has mostly been directed at uh executive pay and alignment you know just our industry's had a terrible decade of return on capital and pay hasn't really gone down um and i think there's very legitimate critiques about the state of governance as far as executive pay and how boards work so there's i think there is room for improvement there in our industry i think the industry is responding to that you raise a whole nother perspective that dollar that i do think is important um i had you're right i have not seen much there and we are uh yeah we're passionate believers in our company so we're publishing this report that's gonna that's gonna inflame some people but i'm happy to do that i want to say look there as they say there's two global energy challenges energy poverty and climate change i want to put them both in context and what drives us what we want we want to we want to make progress on both of them but one of them's larger immediate and urgent so our bigger efforts are on that but we're we're making progress over here as on on the climate change size as long as it doesn't hamper the bigger issue and and we're probably going to get some interesting dialogues about that but i'll tell you a bunch of our investors are very happy to see this report come out because they're getting pressure you know for the people behind them and we what we want is an open airing of the dialogue kids just assume today all other environmental issues are passe and human issues it's all about climate change and everyone including too many people on our side have accepted calling co2 a pollutant we've reduced our pollution more than the other guys water vapor oxygen and co2 are the three molecules without which life on earth is impossible it's a real issue co2 it does absorb infrared radiation and all that but it's crazy that we call it a pollutant you go to college's university everyone thinks it's toxic and it's a pollutant you can never use that term for co2 can i can i pick up the the g point because you're absolutely right there's a major incoherence there which g for governance so it's meant to be for it's meant to be shareholders it's stockholders is the idea that the stockholders but at the same time the big big three index funds and also the business leaders around business roundtable uh last year talked about uh stakeholder capitalism so you have this huge tension between g being about shareholders and g being uh and g being about uh stakeholders and it's incoherent it's kind of unresolvable the other thing is about climate risk disclosures and i think these are these these are systematically misleading because it the idea is that the more co2 a company emits or is responsible for the higher the risk but actually the risk crystallizes if you like the the future liability or the future costs depend where that co2 is being emitted carbon dioxide climate policies are regulated by nation states or in the us to a certain degree by individual states and there are very few corporations whose whose operations are coterminous with a with a nation state so you're actually getting you're getting complete systematically misleading data from this allegedly stuff that's meant to inform investors risk risk appetite risk assessment thank you rupert chris we are right and i apologize we've got a question from the overflow room and that's been the overflow capacity i apologize if you can make it really quick we've got about 30 seconds yeah hey jason how are you doing great canon hey uh you know the the the issue about getting to the young people remind me of a conversation i had with my granddaughter one of my granddaughters about a year ago and she's totally clueless in terms of what the uh of what the oil and gas and and what the energy world is all about uh and you know it seems to me that in in this may be something you already have but some sort of of a of a tutorial process that that you might be able to provide through your your supporters and donors that that we could we could pass out to those that we have credibility with might be a way to reach young people certainly outside of texas those of us that have children and grandchildren that are elsewhere and i don't know you may already have that but to the extent that for the perfect segue for our panel that we're having tomorrow on education we've also just published a white paper written by bud brigham if you look at the online on policy orientation the description for this panel you'll find a link to be able to download that white paper but we're going to talk education our panel tomorrow please give it up for our panel governor dunleavy from alaska chris wright rupert darwal thank you so much appreciate you being here thank you so much