How To Sign New Jersey Banking Separation Agreement

How to industry sign banking new jersey separation agreement

hello and good evening this is attorney Brad machlin on the managing member of the Macon Law Group which is a law firm concentrated in men's and fathers rights in divorce custody and family law issues with offices located in Nutley Montclair New Jersey like to welcome you to our monthly webinar series this is the McClelland law groups webinar equitable distribution of assets what men should know we do this every last Thursday given of a month give or take I will try to announce the date of the next one at the end of this but it's also on my website Nikhil Oberoi calm so this is me in case you haven't worked with me my name is Brad Macklin as I said I'm the managing member of the Macklin Law Group I am a member of the New Jersey State Federal Bar Association's I am licensed to appear both in state and federal courts I began my law career as a judicial law clerk for the Honorable Eugene Austin we did special civil litigation for Bergen County I then moved on to Katherine associates where I did complex commercial litigation for a couple years and then I opened my own office probably around 2000 2001 I was originally a general practice attorney which means I did a little bit of everything quickly learns you can't be good at everything and you certainly can't be great at everything so I decided to concentrate my practice into divorce custody and family law and only recently did we move into men's and fathers rights specifically as a concentration just for those interested today is May 24 2018 so if you're watching this in the future it's always possible that laws and the comments that I'm making have changed but usually these webinars will have general basic information doesn't change too often but still always good to update yourself in case it has here are some awards I've been fortunate to receive over time there and actually need to be updated that I've fortunate to receive many more I don't put these here to impress you but to impress upon you that you know what I'm doing I do care a great deal about my practice of law my clients and I want you to know that you can trust in the advice that I'm giving you and I often say that you don't know if you have a good lawyer until afterwards which is far too late so let's move on real quick for those that may not know we do offer a support group for men in divorce and custody issues you should do it the last Wednesday of every month so it's usually the day before these webinars since seven to eight o'clock times not rigid but you know I try to keep it within that time frame and set my mind up the office it's not usually going to be at the Montclair office unless there's a great demand for it yep if there was a demand for it I might even consider doing a separate one in that office so if you're interested please contact me so let's talk about a little bit what we're going to cover tape first let me give you an idea of how whoever is going to work in case this is your first one this is a 60 minute presentation I do my best to keep it to that timeframe sometimes it's less sometimes it's more but I do my best so that we get the information in and around the same time that I promise you should know it's a one-way communication so hopefully you can see my powerpoint and hear my voice if you can't please make a comment there's a chat panel that this should be on the right side of your screen go either down to the chat or to the questions section and just type something if you can't hear or see the presentation I'll check periodically for that you'll notice on the bottom of the chat panel says there's a handout so the PowerPoint that we're discussing is there for your reference if you want to print it out sometimes there'll be cases and statutes that are cited that may be good for your reference this webinar will also be posted on my YouTube page which is Brad Michael machlin and my firm's website which is Michael all group comm usually a couple weeks after the webinar so you can keep an eye out for them also I will take as much time as necessary to answer questions don't stop during a presentation to address them so I would ask that if you have questions when they come up for you that you click onto that questions portion in your chat panel type it in and send it to me so that it'll be there when we finish and I'll take as much time as I need to to address all of your questions thoroughly so now let's talk about what we're going to cover here today first we're gonna talk about what is equitable distribution just a basic definition main factors of it next we'll talk about the terminating determining distribution of rights and obligations really that's going to be about support obligations mostly talk about how to protect the property that you have different evaluations and different concerns that you need to focus on we'll talk about a case flunkey vs. lucky talks about how to how business interests are handled in the divorce and family court matters and then lastly how to protect those business interests if you happen to have one separate from being a w-2 wage earner so talk quickly about equitable distribution equitable distribution is a term for the distribution of assets and debts it is not equal distribution although that is most commonly where it ends up being absent the factors in issues that we were going to discuss in here there's a presumption that all assets that are acquired assitant debts are acquired while you're married are in fact marital assets and debts there is a way to discuss non-marital and exempt assets but generally they're going to be considered joint the theory of marital enterprise says that the joint efforts of a married party contribute to the acquisition of the assets and the debts regardless of whether or not there's a measurable contribution to the actual asset or the debt and whether or not it's an equal contribution does not always make a difference and that generally arose from the traditional circumstance where you had the husband that was the breadwinner and the wife who was a stay-at-home parent may not have actually acquired any assets or debts for that matter but when sharing it for the fact of raising the children and maintaining the house and caring for the husband sterile II considered both spouses efforts there is no set calculation formula but I do generally start from a 50% of marital assets there are ways to change that but that's where the presumption is going to begin in practice at least and unless that's important to know there are no tax consequences generally to the transfer of assets and debts in a divorce unless you wanted to the walls are currently changing the tax laws are currently changing a great deal and there might be circumstances where it might be more favorable to include taxable issues like capital gains and gift taxes in ways that historically would not have been so helpful now we're not going to really touch on that because the the tax reform is outside the scope of this but it is very important to understand that significantly impacting equitable distribution and alimony going forward in the worst cases so let's talk a little bit about how the court is going to start this the equitable distribution analysis it's really going to be a simple three-step process first they're going to establish what property is subject to distribution there are going to be proper assets that are exempt primarily gifts to one spouse inheritances certain types of injury lawsuits are all going to be considered exempt so we need to this we need to determine what is and what is not subject to distribution we need to figure out the value sometimes you need to figure out the value and acquisition as well as at the time of the divorce or the separation or it's not separation the division and they're often competing values one spouse will believe it's worth more or less than another you may need to get more than one evaluation to determine it the fair value and then the court needs to figure out the best way to allocate between spouses so it's not necessarily everything gets split in half and sold it's not like a fire sale unless the parties want that or just absolutely can't come to their own agreement but normally there's going to be considerations as to whether or not we can offset one asset against another you're going to look at whether the tax consequences in the future are going to affect the distribution and all these things we'll talk about when we get into the factors portion of the webinar also so moving on to some of the more common factors that you're going to encounter in a court during equitable distribution discussions and decisions first it does not matter how you own the property if you buy a house in just one person's name or one's on the mortgage and one's on the beador it's not going to matter if it was acquired during your marriage it's a marital asset and it's a marital debt so if you have a credit card to the other person then sign for it doesn't know about that - it's going to be marital despite the lack of knowledge or being on the title as I mentioned before a very common way to handle distribution of assets and debts is by offsetting looks like the tail end of this this is about you know you can offset one asset against another so that it doesn't have to be distributions one person may keep one full asset like the house and another may keep one for asset like their retirement account that's all set sometimes you use the offsets to reduce your alimony obligation you could give a larger distribution for instance of an asset and avoid paying alimony this was favorable when the taxes before the tax reform I should say we're not really sure how things are going to play out now because alimony is not taxable on the federal level but it is on the state level so we're not sure exactly where the benefits of that kind of structure is going to fall but if you're going to offset assets against one another you need to look at need to be careful about what the basis was or the purchase price and the future tax consequences so people get wrapped up in the belief that there's no tax consequence when you transfer by a divorce which is true but later when you go to liquidate or utilize these assets there are going to make tax consequences you need to contemplate that in your original distribution for instance just real quick if you're giving waiving your interest in a house and keeping your pension over your 401k retirement account that might equal out dollar for dollar but when you can't liquidate your 401k or your IRA without significant tax consequence for usually for our long period of time where house can be sold immediately absent a capital gain issue so you need to look at how that may affect the actual value so it's not a dollar-for-dollar analysis judges can often order that.you encumber these assets in order to pay for the appraisals and evaluations that I mentioned that the interview may need this is significant to know in advance in case you are interested in either keeping a piece of property usually which is where the most funding comes from or if you believe your spouse wants to keep that property you do or don't want that to happen if you go into a case that's going to require a litigation fund most commonly is going to be a HELOC which is going to encumber that assets going to complicate your ability to keep it or tell that the other person keep it there's no double dipping which means if there's an S normally means if there's an asset and an income that's produced from it you don't count the asset and distribution and the income for alimony purposes so if you are getting a pension and the pension provides X dollars per month and then your spouse gets half of the pension in the in the divorce then the income that you receive in the pension doesn't get counted into your alimony obligation any kind of structure similar like that because it would just be unfair lastly fault is not a consideration in equitable distribution - really it's not a consideration really in anything divorce although you'll generally see a sort of catch-all and I think you'll see the neck workable distribution factors later there's generally a catch-all that allows a court to consider you know quote any other circumstances but they rarely do and fault is never I've never seen fault as a consideration let me last let me give you a caveat unless some action has significantly impacted the value of assets like you dissipated assets because you were planning for divorce well that's not necessarily fall to your divorce but the action itself will affect the distribution of your assets it's also issues a marital tort far outside the scope of this if you're interested in that research a case called Tevez versus tempest that's teas and Tom YZ and Edward IV's and Victor I SS and Sam versus Ted this it will give you a general explanation of what the marital tort is all about I won't go into that today so let's talk about distribution of property rights and obligations or support what are you going to do for the next few slides instead of going step by step through all the factors shows there's a ton of them I'm going to list them all I'm going to just put them all up on the screen I'm going to tell you which ones are and are not considered because there's a lot of them the majority of them aren't considered in your standard average case so it's good to know what you want to focus on when you do get into a divorce case of equitable distribution issues so let me just duration of marriage age of the parties income brought to the marriage standard of living written agreements economic circumstances all right so let's start with this page here first you get my pen up here alright so I'm gonna do my best to write alright so a duration of the marriage that is always significant it for equitable distribution in alimony let's give me one second actually switching hands to see if my writings will be a little bit better over here edia physical health the parties not necessarily so much income and property brought to the marriage No standard of living yes written agreements not unless you have a prenup or a postnup if you do then that's the agreement there is no equitable distribution so I'm going to say no to that an academic circumstance the time of division I wouldn't worry about that either duration of the marriage age yes let's put a circle around the age that's yes only because retirement is often a big consideration so out of this page the important things to factor raishin of the marriage age and the standard of living all right there are more factors which is why I'm going to do within this forum earning capacity of each party educational background training employment skills work experience absence from the job market children responsibilities education needed so now let's be clear here let me get my pen out this these are all part of this so income and earning capacity of each party is one factor and inside the factor these can be issues so again I'm going to go down education they'll use that training employment skills work experience all significant length of absence for the market sometimes that's hard to say it depends really on the type of career the person has or had not going to greatly impact equitable distribution it's more going to be concerned for alimony so let's just say no here custodial responsibilities for the children I don't think so when it comes to distribution of assets and debts again that's more of an alimony thing and timing necessary to get education not going to be considered the factors for equitable distribution in alimony are in a similar if not identical statute so there's an overlap of issues but for equitable distribution I wouldn't be concerned with most of these at all it's moving on to our next set of factors contribution education of the other party during a marriage contribution to acquisition of the assets tax consequences of the distribution present value the need to occupy your own residence that's a liability the need for a trust fund and here's the old that any other factors the court deems relevant so going back here contribution to education training for equitable distribution purposes that's know again for alimony it might be but for our purposes as I would say don't worry about it contribution to acquisition of assets no tax consequences of proposed distribution may be it's going to depend on the if there's a significant appreciation and assets during the course of the marriage so that there's either capital gain issues or future tax consequences that would all be the only time you get tax consequences as a serious consideration is if you held the assets or you've had a long term marriage there's been significant appreciation present value the property absolutely of course did need a parents who occupy residents know again that's alimony more debts and liability I think so you know you have to figure out sometimes if somebody's taking more the debt they'll get more of the assets also or they might get the business but they take all the debt for you no need for creation of trust no that's only going to be in a high net worth case and you'll know that long before comes to issues of equitable distribution any other factor quick steam relevant I'm gonna say no believe it or not I've never seen the courts actually use that factor that standard that's really a catch-all gives courts a lot of power but they generally don't use it or I guess maybe even need it so I'm sorry for going through that so quickly but I figure if I did one by one this would be a three-hour webinar so let's move on to what is and is not subject to equitable distribution first what is all types of real property and personal property houses cars bank accounts intellectual property also a particular lease the starting point is we begin from the date of the marriage through the divorce complaint on average that's what the statute says equitable distribution can begin at a date prior to I guess technically after two but also I'm certainly prior to the divorce complaint if it's a there's a reason to suggest it would be more appropriate or fair a common example is if there's a restraining order or final restraining order that physically separates the parties but a divorce hasn't been filed you can argue that that date should be the date for equitable distribution doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be because the law presumes it should be the filing of a divorce complaint but they'll all allows for some flexibility so if there is a date that's more favorable for a reason an equitable distribution you do have an ability to to argue that and ask for those dates as I mentioned before inheritance gifts are generally exempt some kind of certain kinds of personal injury lawsuits are also exempt generally premarital property is also generally exempt other than if there was purchased in contemplation of your marriage like you bought a house together a couple months before you got married or you had a child and then you bought a house then you got married and or if you've commingled it and this is a very important point because a lot of people do this if you take if you have premarital money for instance and you put it into a joint account you are likely to lose it as a separate asset it loses its separate identity and becomes a joint asset and there is something oh sorry there's a tacking long period I don't know what happened to the picture I think cuz I adjusted the slide so tacking along for a period of cohabitation that means if you cohabitated and purchase assets or you had support issues long before you were married some circumstances you can ask the court to consider that premarital cohabitation period for both alimony as well as for equitable distribution the important part about that is if you're going to be seeking to have the court consider the cohabitation portion that needs to be placed in the divorce complaint when you file it which is important to know also since this webinars drive system and if you happen to be on the other side and you're defending against a cohabited period of cohabitation to increase the length of the marriage and it's not referenced in the divorce complaint you need to raise that issue at the time of equitable distribution to preserve your rights let's talk a little bit about some of the case law in side of equitable distribution the first one I'm not going to go in great depth about cases because generally they're only relevant for the main principle not going to give you two months of the facts of the case because you just have to know what they say because now the courts follow that but this was a case in 2002 by the Appellate Division which is the higher level than the trial court they review the trial court's decision it was addressing whether evaluations should be made to account for minority interest so like for instance if you have a 49% interest in a company or even more importantly you are an interest in like a family owned business something that doesn't have a lot of marketability or that you don't have a large share in the distinguish between fair value and fair market value because the fair market value is what it's going to sell for the fair value is what is the value of you retaining that interest through and after the divorce and now they use the earlier the fair value issue or fair value value which is significantly going to significantly impact the valuation both for this and on another issue which I don't think is part of this webinar but about minority interests and minority discounts so the family laws way evaluating business interests is very skewed and outdated and generally leads to an inflated value so if you have a business interest that you're going into with the divorce you need to talk to somebody to understand in what circumstances that can be adjusted but let's get back to this so the holding was that it only applies minority shareholder discounts only apply in extraordinary circumstances now what's important here is in my experience people generally think that this case and the law about equitable distribution says that there are no minority shareholder discounts but that's not the case this case specifically says absent extraordinary circumstances and I don't believe there's a lot of cases that actually define what a short our circumstances are but you have to remember that that does exist so if you have a situation that factually differs from brown versus brown or the common case you can argue successfully for a minority share discount most people go and most lawyers will go in just assuming that it doesn't exist because it's never happened in their practice it's not common but it does don't forget that extra areas or consents catches catch the court hears this quickly was the breakdown of the facts there was a the husband had a minority share with his brother and mother again like I mentioned the family owned business is your common example of a minority interest so let's talk about how you protect these assets as a man and I guess true play it works as a woman too but we still are in a situation where men still commonly make more than women do men still more commonly manage the finance of their homes than women do in my experience and you're not saying this is everybody but just in case people complain to me later all right so let me tell you get my pen out here so you can do some highlighting for you first do not co-mingle I mean the cross that out do not co-mingle let me just erase that those that are gonna look at this later once you be able to read it all right so we're gonna lose the pen for here don't commingle there's often a very large pull when you first get together to co-mingle to put everything in joint accounts you're in love and everything's great and you you know and I'm not saying well don't commit to a relationship but you went into this relationship with separate property knowing that and that will help you guided in decisions later whether or not you're going to contribute it to the purchase of a home whether or not you need a pre or post nuptial agreement commingling it just changes the foundation the financial foundation for which it relationship began and it's never a good move it changes the expectations and it affects the valuation later for divorce so keep everything separate which is number two time here pre and post nuptials prenuptial is obviously what that means post-nuptial is like a prenuptial that you do after you get married it's often called a reconciliation agreement so if there's a contemplation of divorce you can use this as a way to reconcile but resolve your financial differences well as your relationship goes forward and if you later return to divorce so I'm a big fan of post-nuptial agreements the Family Court is not because in many cases they find them to be coercive sort of like a sinus or I'm leaving you but I still think it's good to do and especially if you're going to try to reconcile I think it's a perfect way to try to reconcile and really lay out your expectations going forward trust in estate planning very important it's not only in the the documents themselves but you may want to create trust to hold different property so that it whatever was premarital also retains that identity that separate identity another way you can if you want to retitle property joint ownership with somebody other than your spouse put it into a parents name a siblings name but it has the absolute first of all it should be for a legitimate reason not necessarily just because you're looking to keep it from your spouse that may cause you problems both marital problems and legal equitable distribution problems but there's nothing wrong if you have a piece of property for instance that you inherited and you want to leave to your mother or to your family because it's been in your family you can put your family as a co-owner so inside of the Devore is not only is part of the property owned by somebody else of the values decreased but the intention of where this property was meant to go it's also signified by the joint property lastly keep records if you have premarital assets keep the statements filed them away not just because you want to plan for your divorce in the beginning of your relationship it's not what I'm suggesting but there going to be times when you're buying and selling assets when you are investing in assets and when you're getting divorce that you need to know what the value of your assets are but the tax consequences are you're going to need it often for filing say you know if you buy a house you put a lot of money into renovations you need these records no reason to not keep them from the very beginning of your marriage and it's going to help you forget divorce so let's talk about a couple special considerations that are quite common but not always their pensions they are well there's a couple kinds of pensions first of all there's defined benefits contribution or defined benefits plan a defined contribution plan and then there's also federal plans that are unique really different from those two plans not going to get into the specifics of those but obviously the the thing to know about pension plans first of all is that you do not receive the other spouses interest or I mean your interest in the spouses plan until that person receives it so generally that means retirement you're only going to get what's called a coverture portion that is the portion that was acquired while you were married you normally will have to retain somebody to actually figure that out it's not just a question of figure out the value when you got married in the value when you get divorced for pensions that is because most retirement accounts IRAs for workers pensions have shares so each share changes in value over time so just because it was only worth X dollars when you got married the shares that you had when you got married may be much more valuable than the shares you have now so there are companies that will actually figure out or must share buy share the corporate your Porsche real property will require a new deed and sometimes to refinance that's important you know you have to find out there's going to be any kind of filing fees Realty transfer tax sometimes you can't refinance and somebody expects to be able to so your agreement is that they're going to be buying out an interest you need to have provisions that say what happens in the event that they cannot do so you need to consider what appraisals you're going to need generally they're going to be business jewelry lifestyle and business or your most common for doesn't want to know who's going to be paying for it as I mentioned earlier you want to avoid the court setting a litigation fund that's going to encumber assets there might be better ways for you to do it you might want to protect your assets from the court or during that consideration of assets the ability to earn and generating income that is the assets ability to generate income so if you have a multi-unit real estate home and a retirement account of equal dollar value it's not the same to just take one over the other because the real estate is going to be an income-producing asset and the retirement account is not or at least not may not be as equally active and passive income I'm not going to go deep into the difference active and passive is active is where that fat out acts that changes in value based on efforts passive is where it changes based on market conditions so you need to look if you need to look at the asset is the income active or income passive and is the asset active or passive again I can't go deep into that here but it's a very important distinction especially when you're looking at assets gains and losses both currently as well as what you anticipate in the future again that goes back to keeping record of what the basis is and all your tax records value we should end date so active assets again ones that you contribute to in your own efforts like your home and a business are generally valued at the date of the complaint so that any change in value that happens afterwards is usually retained by the person who is contributing that effort and increasing that value passive assets are things like investment accounts and brokerage accounts that again change in value because the market change is not because of any efforts they're valued at the time of the well either the sale or the distribution it could be at the end of a divorce so the reason is that the market crashes during your divorce there's no reason that one person should get the value based on the time of the divorce our complaint was filed because half of that if not all that's now gone and they had nothing to do with them similarly if a stock investments skyrockets and spikes there's no reason to be denied that when the person who may own the stock didn't do anything to cause that all right so let's talk about the Salafi versus lucky case about a business interest this was a 2017 case and that the Appellate Division actually reversed and remanded this to the court which means they said the trial court made the wrong decision they sent it back for the judge to make a new decision the issue was whether or not goodwill was a part of the husband's interest in a law practice and to give you some quick facts the reason that that was an issue because it would seem implicit to those who know about business valuations no law firm interests the perp that the lawyer in this case was a partner but he wasn't I don't think it was either it wasn't an equity partner meaning he didn't own a share or was he he was neck only because he produced good quality work he wasn't a Rainmaker he wasn't producing clients in business so we had a different type of ownership interest than common so they had conflicting evaluations the judge is believed to have misunderstood the husband's conclusion which led to some of the erroneous decisions but basically it recognized a nuisance value for determining the equity partnership meaning there is still value so I got to take a sip of my coffee it sort of goes back to what I said earlier in this webinar about the minority interests that there are there is still a value to business interests in all circumstances that go beyond and above just the dollar value of what the interests is what the business is so how does New Jersey help men protect your business in a proper division first as I keep saying it's an equitable distribution state not a community o property state and I keep saying that because everybody lawyers and judges like going thinking everything is 5050 but by analogy if you have an alimony issue you might have heard about the one-third rule where everybody goes in thinking alimony is one-third of the difference so people go in thinking equitable distribution is 50/50 and that's an understandable acting adequate starting point but that doesn't mean it has to stay there if you are going to be arguing for a distribution as less than equal then you need to consider all the factors that I outlined before even the ones like crossed out saying the courts don't consider I wasn't saying by the way that they're not important what I was saying when I did the cross and the circles are the ones that the courts generally don't consider so if you have a claim that you wanted to any more or less than 50 percent you have to use those are other factors because each factor has a different amount of weight so the ones that I circled are the ones that the greatest weight doesn't mean you can't consider the other ones and that's where you're going to get your offset or your unequal distribution make creative arguments for non business owners to get less distribution not only using the factors but again using the cases where I said where they acknowledge that the minority interest issues and the lack of marketability issues do have discounts in certain exceptional circumstances you need to find out what those are and utilize them don't go in the assumption like everybody else is that there aren't minority discounts that equitable distribution is 50/50 just don't do it again remember that there's a double dipping so you have to make sure that if there's an asset that's going to be creating income that is not going to be used against you in the future make sure it's clear some assets change they might not be income producing now but they might in the future you need to consider that Social Security for instance is an asset that you acquire later in life that is you know not all often not even distributed something you might want to consider unless it's favorable to you not to deductions that are proper on attached or maybe added back in that's something that you do want to consider I try to stay away from giving a lot of tax advice in there so this is only making motive if you think there are deductions in the earlier ones that are carried forwards you might be able to do lies you should talk to your accountant for I'm not going to go into a great amount here and then considerations of debts to reduce equitable distribution of asset and tax consequences things kind of we talked about before if there are debts that either a debt against the property obviously is going to reduce the value of an asset that commonly is going to be like a house in the mortgage the tax consequences like I said again you have capital gains in the future and you have the tax consequence we're moving from retirement accounts with the penalties of interest these need to be considerations carefully evaluated and determine meaning don't just say okay well I know when I take out my floor when Canada's going to be penalties need to find out what the interest or the the penalties and fees are going to be for dollar for dollar so you know exactly how much is going to be taken out can you do don't just go and assume that's 18% or whatever it is but actually make sure that you know what it's going to be all of these points here and the factors I circled before need to be considered thoroughly if you're going to be entering into significant equitable distribution claims and most importantly if you want to have less than a 50/50 or even more than 50/50 if you're looking to get a larger share you need to use this information in its entirety all right so that pretty much concludes our webinar I'm going to see if I have any questions I don't see any always a little concerning but hopefully that means I covered the information thoroughly for you I don't see any comments it can't hear me so it's not for that reason but I'm gonna hang out for another minute or so in case you do have any questions just post them on the screen like I mentioned before and I'll do whatever I can to answer them fully for you it's we're about 40 minutes in so we got plenty of time by the way I put up my phone number or my email in case you think of something after this that you want to ask me feel free to email me mention it you attended the webinar so that I know exactly somebody said either who you are like at least why you're contacting me because I can't just answering the questions for anybody but certainly do my best to help anybody who's watching these webinars alright so I don't see any questions I'm gonna give it a one two three going once going twice alright so I have to apologize because I don't know the name of the next topic of my webinar but I can tell you at least the date the next webinar is June 28 2018 again that's Thursday night 7 o'clock I actually may be making them earlier at 6:30 so check my website but it will also tell you the title of the the next webinar so thank you have a good night and I hope to sort of see you at my next webinar thank you