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welcome to get rich education i'm your host keith weinhold i'm answering your listener questions today should your first ever rental property be an owner-occupied 4-plex in your own hometown or an out-of-market turnkey investment if i could start all over again in real estate myself what would i do differently and then finally i've got something rather serious and sad to tell you about and every investor can learn a substantial lesson from this tragedy that i experienced myself today on get rich education m.c lobster is the host of the cash flow ninja podcast and president of producers wealth he is on a mission to help you achieve financial independence and freedom as soon as possible he achieves this by integrating the infinite banking concept with real estate investments to increase their returns and recapture cash flow that you are not even aware of that you're losing mc shares the number one strategy of investors in his holistic wealth creation course at your own banking system dot com would you like to know the easiest way to create wealth and passive income with real estate this is marco santorelli with norada real estate investments now you can access the best deals without the stress or hassle of having to find renovate or manage those properties we save you time by providing you with passive income investment properties in some of the best us markets learn more by downloading your free copy of the ultimate guide to passive real estate investing there's no obligation and nothing to buy simply visit passiverealestateguide.com and get your free copy today that's passiverealestateguide.com get rich education is brought to you by ridge lending group producers wealth lorata real estate and total control financial you're listening to the show that has created more passive income for people than nearly any show in the world this is the powerful get rich education hey you're inside gre from inglewood ontario canada to inglewood california and across 188 nations worldwide i'm keith weinhold this is get rich education and you and i are back together again to build your wealth with your listener questions today then later i'll tell you about a disaster that i suffered that damaged my psyche and my real estate and the investing lessons that you can learn from it no matter where you live the first question comes from henry in mcallen texas henry listens to get rich education on spotify henry writes first off a big thank you for all you do in educating others and helping with valuable advice and knowledge they can act on immediately that will lead them to greater wealth my question i'm about to be a first time real estate investor but i'm stuck in deciding whether to make my first move and go for an owner-occupied fourplex or instead a turnkey investment property i am currently a renter in a three-bed two-bath home with a two-car garage and a nice backyard okay so he's living comfortably as a renter now henry goes on to say i am 33 years old have a wife and two kids i know getting into a four-plex would greatly diminish our current lifestyle but i am willing to live in a fourplex for the owner-occupied requirement of 12 months if i have to or would you recommend my first investment to be a single family turnkey property using one of your recommended providers and keep building from there one single-family house at a time i'm thinking about economies of scale and i feel that acquiring the four-plex would get me closer to building my wealth the fastest what do you think keith which route would you go if you were in my shoes all right well thank you for the question henry the short answer is that if the four-plex situation works in mcallen texas then start by doing that if it doesn't start with an out-of-market turnkey single-family home now i'll tell you what i mean when i say if the four plex situation works in mcallen texas now i don't know the mcallen market i know where it's located pretty far south in texas near the international border the four plex versus the out-of-market turnkey single-family home is really a matter of pros and cons so let's discuss these and i'll let you decide the advantages of you buying the fourplex living in one of the units for at least 12 months which is a requirement of fha three and a half percent down financing or zero percent down va financing is that you have three rent incomes and then when you vacate after your owner occupancy period of course you'll have four rent incomes understand that your three and a half percent down payment means you have 28 to one leverage that's pretty awesome if prices keep appreciating now some more positives of the fourplex are that if you live there 12 plus months this is an advantage that a lot of people fail to consider it's that you'll also be able to use those four rent incomes on your mortgage application toward qualifying for a better single family home down the road then you could have had had you not gone through the fourplex first and instead had just tried to buy your first primary residence without going through the fourplex also in the fourplex your economies of scale could very well provide you with a cap rate or cash on cash return that trumps a single family turnkey home maybe maybe not if the four plex were rented to four tenants and its monthly rent income there in mcallen if that number is close to one percent of the purchase price then that's a good sign for you henry for example if you can get five thousand dollars in total monthly rents on a five hundred thousand dollar purchase price for plex you will probably have positive cash flow now if it's a little under one percent it would probably work too but not too much under a one percent rent to value ratio and that's because most texas jurisdictions have higher property taxes another positive of going with the fourplex is that you're going to be able to lock up a larger loan amount at today's low interest rates yes interest rates aren't as low as they were a year or two ago but real estate is a long-term game and interest rates are still a full two to three percent below their historic long-term average get good debt with whatever you do you might be able to lock up say five hundred thousand dollars of cheap fixed interest rate debt with the fourplex texas has pretty favorable landlord tenant law for real estate investors if you are in california or most other coastal states i might just say forget it because the law tilts against you and toward the tenant now let's flip this around and talk about the downsides to buying the owner occupied four plex and the upsides to buying an out-of-market turnkey single-family home as your first rental property ever henry the number one reason it's actually probably not financial it's that you won't have to move you can keep being a renter in your own home which often makes more financial sense than society thinks and rent out your investor advantage single family home to someone else and you own that rental in indiana or tampa or birmingham or huntsville alabama or st louis or cleveland or jacksonville somewhere that's investor advantage moving is stressful and expensive and most people overlook just how stressful and expensive the act of physically moving addresses is until they're in the middle of a move and then it's too late to go back moving will almost certainly strain a marriage and ravage your family's life for a while and here's the thing if you move out of the home that you're currently renting from someone else now and then you buy the fourplex and you reside in it for only 12 months before you move again then that means you'll have to move twice in one year or twice in two years you'll have to move twice bookending however long your fourplex owner occupied period ends up being the next reason that tilts toward buying a single family home is that you'll likely maintain a better quality of life in your 3-2 rental than one unit of a four-plex as you already know because you did indicate your question that you're willing to live the four-plex life for a while and make that sacrifice i'll just ask is your wife on board with that is she okay with that see not all four plexes are apartment style with a common area some are townhouse style where everyone has their own separate entrance to the outdoors and some even have individual garages so you don't always have to sacrifice that much lifestyle but it can get more difficult to find a four-plex where you're not sacrificing lifestyle another consideration is that you need a four-plex in an area where the tenants are decent enough to respect the property and pay the rent on time this is really what i meant earlier on when i said if a four-plex situation works there and determining this yourself can be fuzzy if you can't get a good feel enough for this yourself then you need to ask a local property manager about this not an agent and see how a property manager would feel about operating that building themselves agents are commission driven and they want the sale they're going to want you to buy it this definitely does not mean that all agents are bad but you know we just have some that are incentivized toward prompting transactions rather than your best interests whether or not your property and neighborhood can attract a respectful four-plex tenant has to do with a lot of factors one of them might be the age of the property or the neighborhood some cities and i live in one of them are dominated by 40 year old cookie cutter fourplexes some in better areas than others i could not get my younger brother to get started with the fourplex thing like i did by the way because where he lives in las vegas he said that he didn't feel he could attract the right tenants in a fourplex another advantage of going the single-family turnkey route is that you don't have to be a property manager at all like you probably do in the fourplex managing tenants that live in the same building as you brings about its own set of both benefits and difficulties i would know that's how i started another item is that if mcallen texas economy becomes fragile well you might have the benefit of being diversified into a different larger metro because most turnkey markets are larger with better diversified economies than a place the size of mcallen although i know mcallen is not a tiny podunk town another advantage of going the turnkey route is that once you get into income properties and give it a try if after a while you just somehow decide that real estate investing is not the thing for you well i would advise you to stay the course but if it's really not for you you know what it is easier for you to sell a turnkey single-family home than it is a four-plex that's because you can sell your single-family home to an everyday primary residence dweller but to sell a fourplex you need to find an investor single-family turnkeys are more liquid and then one last thing to consider henry is that a turnkey single-family home is a passive investment and an owner-occupied four-plex is an active investment when you're living at the fourplex you'll often be telling yourself yeah here i go working for my passive income again hmm so great question henry if you reach back i devote get rich education podcast episodes 44 and 45 to my life in an owner-occupied fourplex i even tell you some of the exact sentences that i used to motivate tenants to pay the rent on time and a bunch of street smart tactics in those earlier episodes you can easily remember the four plex episode because it's number 44 i did that for a reason by the way if you want to buy a four plex with a conventional loan and don't plan to occupy it at all expect to have to make a 25 minimum down payment the next question is from simon in manchester england he writes a shorter question keith if there's just one thing that i would want to know it's if you could start all over again in real estate today what would you do differently thanks for the question simon that's a short question and a great one and i appreciate our listeners in great britain uk listeners make up more than one percent of get rich education listenership awesome you see i like to ask old-timers this same question talk to the oldest people at your next real estate investor meetup and ask them if you could start all over again what would you do differently in real estate and just listen simon i would have done three things differently bought more bought sooner and not self managed for so long high self managed five and a half years and you know looking back i would have learned pretty much all the self-management lessons that i would have needed to know in just one to two years as far as the i wish i would have bought more and i wish i would have bought sooner mindset i'd just like to ask you simon in 10 years 20 years and 30 years do you think real estate will be priced for substantially more than it is today i think for you and me and most everyone the answer is yes so in 30 years rather than being that old-timer that says you wish you would have bought more 30 years ago control your destiny and buy more today because in 30 years 30 years ago is today now one of the best things that i ever did was make my first ever real estate owned of any kind that owner occupied fourplex building because i was able to buy it in an area where tenants would respect the property and pay the rent and i was able to buy it in an area of lower property taxes i was even able to get a good interest rate on it somehow i do still remember my mortgage interest rate was six and three-eighths percent at the time in 2002 which i would submit to you is still a historically low interest rate it just doesn't feel like it because of where we've been the last 10 years now i also happened to buy that four plex for 295 000 and all four doors would have rented remember i lived in one unit but all four had a combined market rent of twenty nine hundred dollars so there was basically the one percent rent to price ratio i just didn't even know about that rent to price or rent to value ratio metric at the time and like i've told you before i owned a fourplex for a while before i even knew what words like cash flow and equity even meant that is definitely an example of how sometimes it's best to start before you're one hundred percent ready hey history is on the side of make it happen action takers and i'll tell you that in life as soon as everybody else starts doing something then by that time i've probably lost interest people spend the early part of their lives and their adolescents trying to fit in but successful adults don't try to fit in they try to stand out so ask yourself what are you doing that really stands out thanks for the question simon now although i took action by starting fairly big with the four-plex you know what some people say you got lucky keith you got lucky do you know what my response is to someone that says i was lucky by starting with a bang with the fourplex actually it's not the response you would expect my answer in a sense is you know what you were right i did get lucky why did i get lucky to just have enough to scrape together that three and a half percent fha down payment back in 2002 it's because when i bought i didn't have the life experience or the big picture wherewithal what i mean is that where i bought the property that city anchorage alaska's economy would go on to grow and grow every year year over year for the next 12 plus years after that an unbroken streak of economic expansion but see when i bought the building i didn't even think about the fact that the market is more important than the property itself all i knew was that three tenants were already living in the fourplex and i could move into the vacant unit and collect rent from the other three i didn't even have the investor vision to know that that was risky the anchorage economy is not diversified it's so dependent on the price of a barrel of oil this economy didn't even feel pain during the 2008 great recession like other places did either so i just got lucky oil prices continued to stay pretty healthy for a while that was riskier than i even knew at the time but i made out kind of lucked out and then discovered that there's more risk to only being invested in your own local market than what mo t people realize and then i promptly invested in multiple geographic markets so in a sense though i took a calculated risk when i began there was a component of luck to that initial success i was just kind of blind to the market diversification component you've got to be invested in multiple markets we're actually going to talk about that some more but from a completely fresh perspective and it includes some rather serious and sad material but there is going to be one huge lesson in this for you you're listening to get rich education finally total control financial gives you checkbook control of your 401k and ira money to invest in real estate it's time to get your retirement money into your own checking account but you've got to avoid the little-known tax that you'll pay with any self-directed ira instead it's time for the qrp learn more and get your free copy of the qrp book by text messaging qrp in all capital letters to 72 000. [Music] for a real estate investor like you seeking an income property loan go to ridge lending group and mls 4205 over the years you've heard president chaley ridge generously devote her time to you here on the show as a guest ridge provides investment property loans in most u.s states and you're going to find out how they've helped more people realize their dreams of real estate financial freedom than any other mortgage lender in the entire nation when you get started at ridge lending group dot com this is richard duncan publisher of macro watch listen to get rich education with keith weinhold and don't quit your daydream [Music] welcome back to get rich education where we don't talk about living below your means when you can instead use those same efforts to expand your means so many people think it's good to live below their means to some people financial betterment means that they feel smart by eating a homemade ketchup and mustard sandwich at work because that just saved them six dollars and 20 cents at lunch oh geez when you go grocery shopping how many times would you have to buy the cheap paper towels to send your child to their college of choice nothing there is no number because that doesn't work that's a poor mindset hey what are you doing this weekend i don't know what are you going to do this weekend i'm going to go live below my means well yeah have fun with that and don't plan on including me so i think we we need to give a name to this recurring character that i make these frugal references to at work he spent nine minutes in the bathroom and he thinks that that's just great he's rationalizing that he got paid for those nine minutes in the workplace bathroom that person feels like they won how in the world is spending nine minutes in the old bathroom getting you any closer to what you really want to do with your life and how does that nine minutes help others i got it skip we're going to call this live below your means guy skip scarce skip that totally works because he skips out on picking up the restaurant tab too don't be like skip a rich person digs for gold and a poor person is concerned with the cost of a shovel instead talk about concepts that move the meter in your life and get you thinking and create housing value for others well maybe i'm just trying really hard to have a light moment with you here because i've got something rather serious to tell you about this is why i'm answering fewer listener questions than usual today and it has to do with an earthquake that struck my hometown rattling nerves and destroying real estate now as you'll see this has implications and lessons for you just the same whether you live in a seismically active area of california or alaska or japan or even if you don't just the same anchorage alaska's magnitude 7.0 earthquake that struck a couple weeks ago made world and national news but it seemed to quickly fall out of the news cycle because president george h.w bush's death occurred just hours later and it grabbed more attention now i am not a seismologist but i've been interviewed by other media sources for my take on how earthquakes affect real estate and your behavior as an investor now luckily no one was killed in the 2018 anchorage earthquake and yes my wife and i live in anchorage alaska if you happen to be a new listener i know that may be difficult to wrap your mind around but i moved from pennsylvania to anchorage more than 15 years ago because i like the quality of life opportunities for mountaineering skiing and yet it's still a city of 300 000 people here in anchorage so there are good amenities too the best real estate investors live wherever they want to live and they invest where the numbers make sense some people don't realize that alaska has two to three times the earthquake activity as california and it's also the most seismically active part of the entire north american continent notwithstanding smaller magnitude events as a result of fracking elsewhere the earthquakes i'm talking about are the result of natural subterranean tectonic plate movement the pacific plate is subducting beneath the north american plate huge pieces of real estate moving here now as i tell you about this note that i am uninsured i have absolutely zero insurance protection against earthquake damage even though i'm a real estate guy this earthquake struck just 10 miles north of the city in our home when it struck and it rattled for more than a minute only 10 miles away and i was home alone the house shook so much that first i got scared and then a couple seconds later is really what it takes until i realize what is happening and my next thought is that my gosh the house is shaking so violently and i am not in control i am just not in control at all of whatever happens next soon i was thinking about how never in my life have i felt this much violent side to side shaking and that i am right now living through the most violent earthquake i've ever felt and after what seemed like a minute went by i heard stuff being knocked off the walls i knew i was helpless anyway what i did is i actually stood in my home with both feet put together just to see if the earthquake was strong enough to knock me off my feet it didn't knock me off my feet but the worst of the rumbling was over by them i kept hearing more things fall off the walls and crash and break down on the ground throughout the house and realize this is anchorage on november 30th i had never felt anything like this before so it seemed totally possible that our home's walls could have split apart i had no idea so it's 27 degrees outside fahrenheit in celsius that's three degrees below freezing and there's snow on the ground well my wife was across town and i made sure she was alright then i looked around the home and realized that well walls weren't cracked and doors and windows seemed to open and shut okay and quickly checking i did still have heat and power and even water well a 2006 built home built to some seismic construction standard gave me faith in modern engineering but just a few minutes later a substantial aftershock hit us of course i didn't know it was an aftershock at the time i thought it might be bigger than the first quake you just have no idea what that's going to develop into and by now i just felt really disspirited i was vulnerable i was small and i was helpless and i realized again i have so little control here there's just nothing i can really do other than protect my own body and then i start to think about my local apartment buildings many of them were built in the 1960s and 70s fearing that they probably did not do so well and next the hits just keep on coming a tsunami warning popped up on my phone remember anchorage is a c-level city unpredictable aftershocks of different magnitudes continued in the the hours and the days after the main event the tsunami warning was soon called off that was nothing there soon i'd learned that there was severe damage to a lot of buildings in the area and a lot of highway overpasses some highway sections had collapsed some highways had just shut down completely schools were closed some schools needed to be shut down for the entire school year due to the damage the railroad had to suspend all of their operations the famous trans-alaska oil pipeline was shut down most anchorage television stations were knocked off the air facebook actually became my best news source and then interestingly when i checked my gmail the tsunami warning had appeared in there with the red banner across the top of my inbox so google seems to be integrated with emergency authority well once my family and friends were accounted for i start thinking about my anchorage apartment building tenants my property manager started telling me that things didn't look too bad in some property that they had checked but i wanted to get involved i drove to a nine unit building of mine in midtown anchorage it looked fine from outside and then inside there were just some superficial cracks non-structural cracks in the walls and the residence really didn't seem too rattled by the time that i got there now there were so many water main breaks across the city that the local water authority suggested that residents boil their water because something exogenous could have gotten into the system and at this particular apartment of mine that i visited residents were boiling their water and i informed them that their water comes from an on-site water well not the municipal system and a lot of tenants had lived there for a while and they just never even knew that they were on a well until i had told them so with the passage of a few more days and the time we had mostly sweeping up broken knickknacks at home and trying to pull things back together soon i'd learned that the only substantial damage in any of my buildings is a lot of superficial cracking in a three-story building that i have in an anchored suburb so you know it's maybe ten thousand or fifteen thousand dollars in total damage to repair and i feel lucky for all of the shaking that occurred to only be out of pocket that small amount on several million dollars worth of local property on twitter president trump wrote to the great people of alaska you have been hit hard by a big one please follow the directions of the highly trained professionals who are there to help you your federal government will spare no expense god bless you all now i really wish we had an audio sound bite to play for that but i believe he only tweeted it well why do i feel lucky then it sounds like an awful ordeal to experience in fact we still have aftershocks here weeks later it's because anchorage has potential for way more earthquake destruction in fact a 1964 earthquake in the area registered 9.2 on the richter scale and it's a logarithmic scale so 9.2 that is more than 100 times the magnitude of the recent 7.0 event that i've been describing here that 1964 event was the worst earthquake in the history of the entire continent full of fatalities obliterating sea level communities and it triggered a tsunami so destructive that it even caused damage in hawaii and japan yes 9.2 not a movie but reality and that shaking lasted nearly five full minutes so that's what i mean when i say it can be way worse so back to the present day with all of this seismic activity then why don't i have my real estate insured against earthquakes i own tens of thousands of square feet of real estate in and across anchorage and it's all one hundred percent completely uninsured against earthquakes even though earthquake insurance is available to me well first of all let me tell you this the main reason that i still own anchorage real estate is for the advantageous in-state financing programs that i cannot get anywhere else and i'll tell you why i don't have earthquake insurance and why i won't buy it in the future either and it's essentially a risk versus reward situation first of all earthquake insurance is not part of homeowners insurance or in the case of rentals it's not part of landlords insurance either it's a separate stand-alone catastrophic policy the premiums are somewhat expensive for a 500 000 primary residence your home it would cost about seventeen hundred fifty dollars per year just for the earthquake policy and that's on top of a homeowner's policy now i could afford that but there is more to this in the case of rentals some positively cash flowing buildings might go negative with an earthquake insurance policy but here's the thing your deductible amount is often 10 percent even 20 percent of the property value with these earthquake policies yes so if your house is insured for five hundred thousand dollars then your deductible is fifty to one hundred thousand dollars so even if you ever made a claim you'd still come out of pocket 50 to 100k before your insurer would begin to pay anything it's estimated that fewer than 10 of anchorage residents carry these policies in importantly your lien holder mortgage companies they do not require earthquake insurance at all well here's what happened next a few days after the recent 7.0 earthquake i predicted this the governor of alaska declared a disaster so you can apply for grant relief you can apply for grant relief grant programs make earthquake insurance an even worse idea i'm not sure what the people that already have earthquake insurance with a high deductible will do with the grant relief it's still unfolding here now and this plays into the big real estate lesson for you even if you don't live in a seismically active area you might know i was going to say this yes i strategically maintain low equity positions in all of these properties say 20 percent or less if my damages were worse the risk could transfer onto the bank in a way for me the bank is the one with 80 skin in the game in these properties i've got 20 percent this way even if the properties were flattened if we had a 1964 ask event the bank is going to be an enthusiastic aide in my financial health they will advocate on my behalf with insurers and with the grant administrators and why is that because the risk is on the bank now yes there are more complex issues of llc's and recourse loans but let's just keep the discussion simple here low equity positions locally that also means i have more equity that i can use to diversify into multiple geographic markets so i can own property from alaska to texas to florida to panama and beyond that's the big real estate lesson here even if you don't have earthquakes even if you don't have any natural disasters of any kind where you live at all no hurricanes or tornadoes or anything else low equity positions in diversification hedge you against things other than just natural disasters that can hedge you against regional recessions local recessions that can hedge you against state government policy change and a lot more just think about remember a decade ago arizona's income property industry had an overnight change when illegals became policed differently there so there are all kinds of risks both seen and unforeseen of only being invested in one market so there really are i think about five key lessons for you here be invested in multiple markets for diversification earthquake insurance is often a waste of your money as i've often said home equity is unsafe illiquid and its rate of return is always zero don't discount renting your own home renting your own home makes more sense than what society deems low equity positions mean that you can own more property with the same amount of equity and low equity means high leverage ratios with positive cash flow leverage creates wealth compound interest does not so those are the real lessons here the earthquake rattled my wife and i's nerves and it still does with each aftershock my investing strategy was not rattled at all in fact it might be the only thing that anchorage's terrible earthquake solidified they are the lessons if i can leave you with something positive with this earthquake and give you some paradigm-shifting perspective and appreciation just look at recent world earthquakes with about the same magnitude as anchorage's 7.0 consider this in 2011 new zealand's earthquake resulted in 160 deaths in their fairly developed nation in 2009 italy had a quake of similar magnitude 309 deaths there earlier in 2018 in onesia they suffered 460 deaths from an earthquake of similar magnitude in 2010 haiti also had a 7.0 event it resulted in 2003 000 deaths that is not an error what a tragedy here's my point in 2018 anchorage usa had a 7.0 event it resulted in zero deaths absolutely zero in and around anchorage that is a tribute to engineering and construction right there so if you are in any of those fields thank you for helping to keep your neighbor and me safe next week on the show two podcast hosts question and push back against my financially free beats debt free platform it's gonna make for a great discussion early next year we're stacked with a great lineup of both material and feature guests here on the show as renowned financial commentator and legendary investor jim rogers will join us on get rich education remotely from singapore other notable guests include the return of the wealth factories garrett gunderson the return of rich dad poor dad author robert kiyosaki that'll be his third appearance here and so much more if you learned anything today you learned about the risk of being invested in only one market and the value of being invested in multiple markets you can find top turnkey properties with experienced providers in a bunch of different investor advantage metro areas most in the united states at a resource that i wish i had available to me when i started investing you can learn about that at gre turnkey.com i'm keith weinhold and i look forward to enthusiastically building your wealth with you again next week invest in multiple markets and don't quit your daydream nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice please consult an appropriate tax legal real estate financial or business professional for individualized advice opinions of guests on their own information is not guaranteed all investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss the host is operating on behalf of get rich education llc exclusively america's third largest city chicago illinois has big economies of scale for real estate investors but there are problems with investing in highly taxed fiscally strapped illinois you can beat it when you invest in chicago land staying on the indiana side of the state line your property tax on a median indiana home is less than half that of an illinois property forbes ranks indiana is one of the top 10 states to do business with typical rents at twelve hundred fifty dollars and purchase prices at 125 k northwest indiana numbers work learn more and connect with the turnkey provider at getricheducation.com chicago that's get rich education dot com chicago 71 of americans aren't saving enough for retirement it's going to get worse as people live longer and you need to start thinking differently but you can't lose your time real estate is the investment vehicle that's made more ordinary people wealthy than anything else keith weinhold of get rich education is hosts of one of america's top investing shows disrupting wall street he's an international best-selling author a writer for rich dad advisors and has been an active income property investor since 2002 he has created thousands in passive monthly income for countless followers and now he has a free book the seven principles for creating wealth in your life get your copy now at get rich education dot com forward slash book that's get rich education dot com forward slash book because invest in what produces income for you now and later sign up now at getricheducation.com forward slash book 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